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Thanks for the positive vibes, bro.
FWIW, the 1/100th scale Nitto 707 is possibly the most accurate 707 model out there, though it’s in an oddball scale and it has some cheesy display features.
Tracy Scott Mann recently finished one as a TGA “Golden Argosy” 707, which he painted with Alclad.
Alclad is definitely not my cup of tea, but he probably knows a lot about the actual construction of the kit
I started painting the white solar cap, but there are some… issues that need to be re worked before i can put more paint on.
At some point i may attempt to resurrect an old Heller 707 from my dungeon of doom. In a way, all these 1/144th scale builds are kind of practice runs for something bigger and better. However, i still have a VC10, Electra and Convair 990 to work my way through.
-d-
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I’m almost ready for paint…
The Frontier paint job is a lot like a United one: a white solar cap, dark blue cheatline, white stripe below and then a thin gold pinstripe.
I need to set the bottom edge of the pinstripe correctly, but in order to do that i have to accurately map out the location of the blue pinstripe and work from that.
That in itself is a tedious process of measuring, cutting stripes the correct with, laying them on the model (on the window line!), making them straight…and then more tedium in checking them left to right, so the paint job doesn’t look all wonky when viewed from head on.
…Which prompted another round of checking-removing-re-adjusting the windshield masks.
Glad i’m only doing this once; the CRM kit is soooo much nicer.
-d-
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Frontier 727 in classic scheme…cool! In time many of them would wear Braniff International colors.
What decals are you using? It’s going to be interesting watching you paint the pinstripes. Can’t wait for the next episode!
Cheers!
Tom
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Slowly building up the coverage on the white solar cap…
Classic tale, of two steps forward, one step back.
After pondering the degree of difficulty, i decided to glue the pylons onto the fuselage now, rather than hold off until after the model is decaled. We shall see how this works out.
-d-
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I’m only going from memory, and it has been many years, but I swear that color is green, not blue. I think the Microscale 737 sheet has the most accurate color. Check your references for sure.
I don’t always say “Proceed as requested”
But when I do, it is because I have no clue what you just said.i *do* have a Microscale decal in my stash, and i’ll take a look at it.
On the Classic Airlines, sheet the cheat line is a blue-turqoise colour. I’m presently looking for a suitable paint. I’ll be using the Authentic Airliners 727 window decals, so that’s driving the width of the cheat line.
I will attempt to paint the thin silver cheatline. Mr Hoby makes a metallic finish called “Super Gold”.
Reminds me of a 1980s Prime Time TV show. But that’s just me. I need to get the lower edge of the white perfected, before i can paint that…
-d-
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Here’s a decent pic of what I remember seeing:
I don’t always say “Proceed as requested”
But when I do, it is because I have no clue what you just said.Yep, I thought the cheat line was green, too, but that was no doubt influenced by the later iterations of Frontier and the green titles – first above the windows and now across them. The photo above (and the ones in my collection) show the color to be greenish-blue. Pan Am and Piedmont blue are too bright, United (“Mainliner” scheme) too dark. The problem I’m finding is that the photographs of the old Frontier 727s and 737s all seem to have been taken by Kodak instamatics and the colors are off.
Cool thing about this particular aircraft, Dave, is that you can clearly see the clamshell thrust reversers!
Cheers!
Tom
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As is often the case, photos show a variety of colors for the cheat line. I do believe that the dark green on the Microscale 737 sheet is probably the correct color. Joy Decals does have a sheet by Decales Global that has the cheat line in the dark green.
Gene
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Well, i found a Mr Color Gundam paint (UG16) Titans Blue.
I compared it to the microscale 737 decal and at the time it looked like a good match.
I just masked and sprayed one -ONE- of the cheatlines, and it looks way too dark. It doesn’t even look remotely Blue; it looked like a very dark, black green.
FORTUNATELY- i managed to sand off the cheatline without really damaging the white primer underneath.
So, the damage is ultimately nowhere as bad as i’d feared.
So- Any ideas??
sigh….
-d-
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If remember correctly (again) the Microscale decal looks darker green, but is actually a bit translucent when applied. Over white, it really looks correct to my eyes. My personal solution would be to use multiple 737 decals for the model. I know you like to paint the cheatlines, so maybe find a lighter color green, or mix in some white to your current color. Now, I am no mixologist, I prefer to find the right color myself, so maybe something other than white to give it a lighter color? Good luck, I hope to see your solution!
I don’t always say “Proceed as requested”
But when I do, it is because I have no clue what you just said.When i started this project, i originally thought the paint scheme looked like this…
…which is what i suspect Classic Airlines decals based their artwork on.
Further research, however, shows the colour is darker and represents something of a blue-green, bordering on teal or turquoise…
So, right now i’m casting about to find either a suitable off the shelf paint or more likely, mix something up using Tamiya acrylics.
Since i originally painted the strip with Mr Color, i’m only half surprised that it came off the underlying white surface primer so easily. Mr Color does not seem to bond well to smooth surfaces.
I’m also still futzing around with setting the cheatline at the correct height. You won’t be having that problem with the CRM kit- that’s for sure.
-d-
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What color is the “FRONTIER” script? It looks like a darker color than either blue. If you’re going for the color on 7274F, my vote, if I were using Model Master paints, would be to start with Ford/GM engine blue, mix in 10% white, and add a few drops of yellow until it looks right. Definitely do a few test sprays on a separate piece before committing to the model, and if you have extra decal scrap, put that on the test piece as well to see how similar it looks.
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The FRONTIER script as far as i can tell is black.
-d-
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Dave, I have that same photo of Frontier 727-91 N7271F (at Dallas Love Field, March 1968), which is what I was basing my color opinion on. Now that you posted the photo, I can see and American 727 in the background with its tail poking out of the hangar. The “Lightning Bolt” scheme looks good, but I suppose there are too many models out there attempting to replicate it. Your second photo of N7274F (I presume Denver Stapleton) shows a Braniff 727 in the foreground in a beautiful shade of blue (the Frontier 580s — and a DC-3! — are tempting, too). You’re spoiled with choice here.
To re-familiarize myself with the Microscale Frontier 737 decal I consulted Bay of Evil and came up with a photo of the decal sheet. That looks pretty green to me, more like the color of Frontier’s script font (previous to the current silver font across the windows). I checked Runway 30’s decal sheet of the Alaska 727s back when they had different designs on each tail. The green stripe was the one with the totem pole. Is that the color green you are trying to replicate, or something with more blue in it? Perhaps LH’s mixology will get you there.
You’ll solve the color problem in time.
Cheers!
Tom
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I hate to admit, as my mind wants to lean toward the dark green, but, after looking at as many photos as I can find (CV580/737/727), there is definitely a blue component. Some look more blue than green, some look all blue, many appear to look like a dark teal, something like Tamiya Racing Green with some blue added in.
Short of finding some kind of official Frontier painting document, I doubt anyone could challenge whatever color you decide on.
Gene
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Hi Everyone,
I remember this paint job VERY well. I flew FL quite a bit back in the 1960s….including my very first 727-200 from MKC-STL in 1968.
The cheatline was a dark greenish blue (more green than blue). The FRONTIER on the fuselage was black lettering.
This shows the dark green cheatline a little better.
Fond memories.
Braniff2
MCI
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Just to add more to the confusion. How about an ever so slight metallic sheen to the green, thus giving eyes (and cameras) the bluish illusion. Maybe Frontier had a slight metallic sheen to “match” the shimmer of gold. Just thinking a bit here, and trying to remember what I saw 50ish years ago, and (I keep going back to this) how the Microscale decal goes on and looks. Dave, take a little piece of that decal and put on some test white, match your paint to that. I really think they got the color right.
I don’t always say “Proceed as requested”
But when I do, it is because I have no clue what you just said.Well, after 4 tests, i mixed up a colour i thought looked plausible and applied it to the model.
I narrowed the colour selection to two choices: One with slightly more green; One with slightly more blue.
I chose the slightly more blue one. Added 2 drops of Tamiya Flat White also and i added 5 drops of GX 112 UVCut before spraying it.
The one thing that was driving me bonkers, was getting the cheat lines symmetrical. They’re indexed to the cockpit side windows, which went through numerous positioning adjustments..
I’m never doing THIS again.
There are some rough spots and the gentle sweep upward to meet the cockpit side windows still needs some refinement…
Once again i’m using the Authentic Airliners window decals. Using the 727 decal windows as a reference, i made the cheat line 0.13 inches wide. This allows a sliver of space between the silver window frame and the edge of the cheat Line.
Up next will be masking and finishing off the back end, and then after that the gold cheat line…or at least the prep work for it.
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Here’s an interesting twist, tail flash matching the cheat line color.
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Dave, it looks good! It’s hard to determine the kit’s humble beginnings looking at it now; you’ve made great progress!
Does anyone know the purpose of that narrow (usually silver) stripe just forward of the rudder on the 727? Some airlines had it while others did not. Sometimes the strip went through the tail logo, like on early United 727s and other times the logo covered up the strip. I always figured it had something to with inspections so the engineering department kept that area unpainted, but again it isn’t universal across all aircraft.
Anyway, perusing all these photos of Frontier 727s I, too, noticed that the narrow stripe was dark green or bluish-green if that’s the color we’ve settled on to match the cheat line, rather than silver or bare metal like they usually appear.
Cheers,
Tom
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Dave, it looks good! It’s hard to determine the kit’s humble beginnings looking at it now; you’ve made great progress!
Does anyone know the purpose of that narrow (usually silver) stripe just forward of the rudder on the 727? Some airlines had it while others did not. Sometimes the strip went through the tail logo, like on early United 727s and other times the logo covered up the strip. I always figured it had something to with inspections so the engineering department kept that area unpainted, but again it isn’t universal across all aircraft.
Anyway, perusing all these photos of Frontier 727s I, too, noticed that the narrow stripe was dark green or bluish-green if that’s the color we’ve settled on to match the cheat line, rather than silver or bare metal like they usually appear.
Cheers,
Tom
Dave, it looks good! It’s hard to determine the kit’s humble beginnings looking at it now; you’ve made great progress!
Does anyone know the purpose of that narrow (usually silver) stripe just forward of the rudder on the 727? Some airlines had it while others did not. Sometimes the strip went through the tail logo, like on early United 727s and other times the logo covered up the strip. I always figured it had something to with inspections so the engineering department kept that area unpainted, but again it isn’t universal across all aircraft.
Anyway, perusing all these photos of Frontier 727s I, too, noticed that the narrow stripe was dark green or bluish-green if that’s the color we’ve settled on to match the cheat line, rather than silver or bare metal like they usually appear.
Cheers,
Tom
Tom, that strip you’re talking about was typically Boeing grey. It has been represented on the Avigraphics detail sheet and the CRM sheet for the -200 that way as well. All the pictures I have seen, it is grey. I was surprised to see in photos even on the all white tail of the Western 727 I recently built, as opposed to the bare metal rudder versions seen on many airlines. Which poses another question, Why? Anyway, I think it is pixelation on the last photo that makes it look painted the same green. It most likely was Boeing grey.
I don’t always say “Proceed as requested”
But when I do, it is because I have no clue what you just said.Tom, that strip you’re talking about was typically Boeing grey. It has been represented on the Avigraphics detail sheet and the CRM sheet for the -200 that way as well. All the pictures I have seen, it is grey. I was surprised to see in photos even on the all white tail of the Western 727 I recently built, as opposed to the bare metal rudder versions seen on many airlines. Which poses another question, Why? Anyway, I think it is pixelation on the last photo that makes it look painted the same green. It most likely was Boeing grey.
If we’re thinking about the same thing, my guess is its a gap seal over the rudder hinge line, much like the gap seals you see on Boeing wings and horizontal stabilizers.
-d-
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I’m butting in here. I might be helpful or might be way off base. The line on the 727 tail forward of the rudder? You aren’t talking about the line of vortex generators are you? I looked closer at a “mystery line” and see that they are vortex generators. Pretty much in the middle of the tail angled towards the front going right through the meatball.
Ken
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Not the vortex generators Ken. It probably is the gap seal Dave said. Here is my example:
https://www.planespotters.net/photo/1143594/n294wa-western-airlines-boeing-727-247-adv
I don’t always say “Proceed as requested”
But when I do, it is because I have no clue what you just said.Hello, Ken,
Thank you for the photo of the Pan Am 727. Nope, not the vortex generators which are running down the center of the tail (and which Airfix so generously provide on their 727 kit!). I’m looking at the strip just forward of the rudder on this photo of an Eastern -25C (N8159G, LGA, July 1979) and aft of the dark blue stripe (and narrow white border)
I’m willing to accept that it is Boeing Gray and that its purpose is a gap seal, as Dave proposes. But it’s strange that only the 727 has such a feature — no Douglas jets, Convairs, Lockheed, no other Boeing airliner. And as your Pan Am photo illustrates, not all 727s had them visible — this Pan Am jet certainly didn’t or you would see it crossing parts of the “A” and “M” (well, it’s there, but Pan Am painted it to match the logo and the tail).
I was hoping to find a photo of a 727 under construction. You can see this strip very prominently. Ah well…
Cheers!
Tom
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LOL…..I’m happy that it isn’t the vortex generators. But the question remains. What is it?
I pulled out my three 727 books and looked at ALL of the photos. Some planes have a gray strip, on some it looks white, and others don’t seem to have it at all. What we need is someone to take a close look at a parked 727. How about a former 727 pilot? Ellis Chernoff or Jeff Jarvis?
Ken
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I’m working on a New York Air 737-300 using the LU decals. There is a similar gray strip on the decal sheet with instructions to apply it to the leading edge of the rudder before applying the white apple logo on the tail.
Gene
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Most of Boeing control surfaces are designed with an aerodynamic balance. Inside the fin, between the rudder hinges, I would expect to find a barrier. The concept being when the surface is significantly deflected, air will get into one side and push on this barrier to assist in the deflection. This reduces the force need to deflect the surface. Air on the other side needs a way to escape and I think that is the thin panel you see between the actual rudder and the stabilizer. The same system is used on the ailerons. Those strips can be painted, or not, but often they are Boeing gray.
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Aaaanyway…. i’ve gone through what i call the “first corrective iteration” of fixing the cheat lines…
This pass was to finish off the back end of the cheat line, and make the swoopy transition of the cheat line upper edge more gradual.
Once i get the cheat line cleaned up, the next step will be to clean up and adjust the lower white stripe, to make it uniformly wide to get ready for the gold pinstripe…
-d-
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Great build, indeed, thus far.
You might want to reconsider the shape of the clear nav light housing on the tail. Yours appears pointed. I’ve never seen this on a B727.
All the 727s I’ve seen (and there have been many!) have a rounded end…either with a light (UA had them, oscillating—for a time) or just a rounded fixture.Some did have the more pointed tail end but these have had HF antennas attached.
Just a thought.
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Dave, I am in AWE of your masking / painting ability. Wow! The nose on view looks almost dead on correct! You have my respect, sir! Kind regards, Dutch
Kind regards,
DutchYeah, i know.
It was just easier to make it pointed (clear acrylic is hard) and keep the option open to round it off at some point (no pun intended).
-d-
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The PSA tail above clearly shows the strip on the rudder we’ve been discussing. I found a painting blueprint for the Eastern hockey stick scheme the shows that strip labeled “do not paint”.
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The PSA tail above clearly shows the strip on the rudder we’ve been discussing. I found a painting blueprint for the Eastern hockey stick scheme the shows that strip labeled “do not paint”.
I was trying to be subtle! LOL
BTW….wherever did you get that EA B727 paint guide? I’d kill for it!
-Jay
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Hi Jay,
Do a Google search for:
Eastern 727 painting blueprint
You should see both the forward and aft sections as separate images.
Gene
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Gene;
Thank you very kindly.
I found it and truly appreciate the guidance.Jay
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Another minor update from the Boeing Bremerton field office…
I’ve been working on the antiglare of late. True to form, masking and painting one of these to make it symmetrical is not as easy as you might think.
Somebody – don’t remember who- suggested that for very tight curves around the nose, i should try punching a round disc of tape with a Punch and Die set, and start with the disc and build outward from that with masking tape…
I can tell you it seems like a good idea in theory, but i’ve had problems being able to punch out a disk of tape cleanly.
I tried Tamiya, i tried 3M Scotch Tape, and what you see here is 3M Blue painters tape.
I haven’t tried bare metal foil yet, since i feared getting it off the waxed backing without tearing. However, it might be worth trying someday.
Not seen here, but i’ve also removed the windshield masks and the whole solar cap and vertical fin got a coat of clear gloss.
-d-
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Looking good! I think you have the blueish green color pretty close to what you need.
i use .4mm masking tape for those small tight curves. Aizu is the brand. I buy it from a vendor that sells at my local IPMS show. No website, but he does take email orders. Basically, it is Tamiya at that ridiculous width. I just used it for the black nose on my Hughes Airwest 727, and it made a clean line on that tight curve.
I don’t always say “Proceed as requested”
But when I do, it is because I have no clue what you just said.Well, the tape i tried out definitely did not make the grade, LOL.
I have a couple of thin flexible tapes on order from Super Hobby. I want to give them a try before i start shopping for more thin tape.
The washi-paper tapes seem to stick to the surface better but they “pucker” around a tight bend radius. The plastic tapes bend a lot better, but the one i tried didn’t stick to the surface worth a damn.
-d-
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No “pucker” factor at .4mm!
I recently bought some masking putty, thinking it would help me achieve the “fade effect” I need for my Imua One paint. Nope a nice clean line. Maybe that is worth exploring in the future? I know for me, I’m going to try it along a panel line, so can trim it there. Possibility exists for curves with no set line, but my brain ain’t ready for that yet.
I don’t always say “Proceed as requested”
But when I do, it is because I have no clue what you just said.State of play on the 727…
The cockpit windows are…well, about as far as i can get them for now.
The rudder is painted, as is the No. 2 engine inlet…
Up next, i mask off the whole upper part of the fuselage and then i go to work on the wings- beginning with the wingtips.
More to come…
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Sorry to be late on the comments here just catching up on reading through this thread. First off your re-engineering of this golden oldie is just breathtaking. I always learn a lot from your build logs. Now for the comment on the Frontier Airlines color on the Microscale sheet. That green/blue was matched to a Boeing supplied color chip of the Frontier color as was the gold dulux color in the logo. It is correct at least for the initial run of the decal. I know this because I was with Microscale doeing their airliner decal projects for about a year and this was one of the projects. Now back to watching this fantastic build!
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Thanks Wayne!
I Did get a copy of the microscale sheet for the 737, and at first i attempted to match the cheat line colour to it.
I thought i found a suitable off the shelf paint that would match it. I tried it out and it looked terrible.
Then I went back and looked at as many photos as i could and ultimately derived a colour using Tamiya Flat Blue, Flat Green and a little bit of white.
Still pondering what to use for the gold cheat line. I have some old ATP United Airlines Caravelle/ 737 decals with gold pin stripes, and i’ve also considered painting them on, using either a brass or a gold colour.
However, thats down the road a ways. I’m working on fuel dump pipes and logo light posts on the wingtips right now.
Remember that X-Scale will be rolling out an all-new Boeing 737-200 very soon, so there’s probably at least one more Frontier ArrowJet in my future.
-d-
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Before i can begin painting the wingtips- i have to finalize installation of the fuel dump pipes and the floodlight posts.
I used this technique a while back to create a place for the fuel dump pipes, but further research uncovered there was a second, longer set of things coming out the trailing edge. As far as i can tell, these were lights aimed at the vertical fin to illuminate the airline logo. Because they stick out more, i made them from brass rod to make them more bendy-breaky resistant.
Now all i need to do is re create this on the other wing….
-d-
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Posts: 123Location: Salt Lake CityOccupation: Retired. Twice: Civilian HR manager and US Army officerThe fuel dump pipe is made of what?
Robert V. Leonard
The fuel dump pipe is just a piece of Evergreen rod. What i don’t remember is the diameter. The Floodlight post is brass rod.
-d-
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