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Jeff Thomsen and I discussed the radome shape yesterday, and he feels it’s good enough as it is to press on with the rest of the build; so i will. He too agrees that dropping the cockpit cab made a huge difference… which lines up with what everyone else is saying. He compared the photos to his Airfix and Revell 727 builds and the difference is clearly visible. Definitely a qualitative improvement.
I have some LACI engines on order to use with this model so i can’t work on the engines now. I think the next step will be to go back to the wings, clean up a few areas and survey the re-scribing job to come.
-d-
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I think that looks much better, well done. The tip for the Heller 707 nose came from Rob Sherry (or maybe Jodie?), I’m just passing it along.
I think the radome looks pretty close. To my eye the flight deck windows are a bit off, not sure exactly how though. Maaaaybe they’re too tall? Try comparing the shape of the two center ones with the original in terms of geometry and angle to see if there’s something there. Again, you gotta pick your battles.
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The tip for the Heller 707 nose came from Rob Sherry (or maybe Jodie?), I’m just passing it along.
Yep, that observation was 100% Rob’s suggestion.
Jodie Peeler
"In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." - Sayre's Law
Not very scientific i’ll admit, but i pulled out some 1/144th scale ATP airliner window decals and held them up next to the filled in Revell windows. I think you’re right in observing that some of the windows (the side ones, at least) are a bit tall. The window posts and the window openings thenselves don’t have a lot of sharp, square corners, so in the filling process when the excess filler is sanded away it does make the side windows look bigger.
Not sure how ATPs geometries stack up against the AA 727 cockpit window decals but i guess we’re gonna find out eventually. I’m hoping to mask and paint everything except for the Frontier logos of course, then i’ll be using AA cabin and cockpit windows. The thin gold pinstripe running along the lower edge of the white will probably require (carefully) slicing it free of the adjacent clear decal portion but i think it can be done.
Started re scribing the fuselage last nite. Stuck mainly to doing the transverse bulkhead frame lines.
Also did some more scribing on the VC-10 belly and the drilling of the fuel tank vents. Got a hold of some VC10 servicing diagrams of the belly and the panels depicted are very different from what Roden provides. Like you said, you gotta pick your battles carefully…
-d-
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Work on the model is still ongoing. Just that i’m in the process of re scribing the fuselage. It’s tedious, and the completed work doesn’t photograph well.
I also am adding fuel dump masts to the wing trailing edges. One came out better than the other and i’m debating between leaving it alone, or re-working it.
-d-
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I am curious – what happend to this project?
Greetings
Uwe
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Hi Uwe!!
Well when we last tuned in, i was in the process of re-scribing the panel lines on the fuselage. Some of the super glue filler came out of those recessed Revell window depressions that needs to be re-filled. Honestly, that surprised me, but scotch tape is pretty sticky stuff.
I got kind of lost when it came to the panel lines on the upper part of the vertical fin cap, which is where i stopped.
The model was set aside for a while as i turned to getting some other projects closer to completion -namely VC-10 number 2, G-ASGD- which is ready for paint.
I have also since gotten the LACI JT-8D engines, and i need to cut one off the casting poles to see how well it will integrate with the Revell fuselage. They look very very nice.
Nothing has gone wrong, per se, but i got bogged down in other model projects and lost focus.
Next step with the wings will be to remove the clear wingtip lenses, add some lightbulbs, and re attach.
So, that’s the latest. With the Seattle contest next month, i’m focusing on stuff i can get *done*, soon.
-d-
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Mr. D why don’t you show us some photos of your progressed B-727 model because we’d like to learn some of your modeling techniques. 🙂
RN
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Thanx for the update.
I will stay curious.Uwe
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Well, the latest VC10 clear coat is drying, so i got back to re-working the 727 wingtip lights. I was quiet on purpose about this until i got this part done cause i was worried it would be unsuccessful.
I took a needle nosed pliers and extracted (broke off) the shaped wingtip lenses, and i drilled two closely-spaced holes and filled them with Tamiya Clear Red (port)…
…and Clear Green (Starboard). The starboard lens shattered while trying to get it off the wingtip, so i needed to re do that one.
Were i to do it again, i would have drilled the holes and painted the bulbs while the acrylic was a bigger, monolithic chunk, but i wasn’t sure i’d get the lightbulb holes aligned with the chord line of the wingtip.
The original plan was to rescribe all the lines on the wings before mating the wings to the fuselage.
Unfortunately, the wing-fuselage fit is so…… well, problematical that i thought it best to glue the wings on first, patch up the holes and then put the details on.
So, here we are in the Laydown fixture (expensive aerodynamic-speak for, “workbench”….).
[caption id="attachment_246029" align="alignnone" width="638"]
727-100 undergoing wing mate in layup fixture[/caption]
I “smushed” (technical term) the fuselage onto some blobs of Elmers Tack Putty, then positioned smaller blobs under the wingtips. Getting the fuselage level was done with the Mk I eyeball, and height measurements were taken at the trailing edge of each wingtip from the working surface to try to get the alignment correct before the glue set up.
I think i was mostly successful.
The remaining gaps at the wing root turned out to be substantial, despite all the prep work. Multiple rounds of filling and sanding were required on the wing root undersides.
I think we got there in the end, but it was a prudent decision to hold off on the surface detail restoration until the wings went on.
The gaps on the upper wing root were not so bad, but a lot of filing and aggressive sanding was required at the leading edge roots, so the wing leading edge aligned with the fuselage wing root fillet.
Te wing-fuselage joints on this kit are weird, and i haven’t determined exactly what the issue is. Is one wing thicker than the other? Are the fuselage fillets at different places on the fuselage? Is the wing incidence different between left and right sides?
The wing sweepback and change in the thickness mid-span doesn’t help either.
Were i to build this model again (keep in mind this was probably started in the 1980s or early 90s), i’d probably glue the upper wing planks to the fuselage separately and line the wings up with the root fairings, set the dihedral and let things dry, and then file, hack, sand, shim, and fill the lower inboard wing segments into the wing and fuselage by whatever means necessary.
In its raw form, the wing planks are encrusted with boilerplate rivets and the underlying surface resembles the St. Andrews Golf Course. The benefit of sanding all those rivets rivets off and re working the wingtips is it evens out the worst of the golf course, and you wind up with a much thinner, sharper wing cross section. Just be prepared to take some rather aggressive sanding and filing tools to do the clear cutting.
So, there will be another intermission, while i re-scribe the detail on the wings and chip away at the VC10.
Starting to think about the engine nacelles. As ever, keep those letters and cards coming!
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Great update and progress on the 727 with the custom tweaks. The fundamentals of the Revell kit and the girth of the fuselage particularly at the wing box and underside (in all seriousness) is so realistic to me to the real plane. Airfix did not get this right at all. Laci I think has engines now that are not open or anything. Check them out or Contrails if you can find them. I love that the wheels roll and the air stairs.
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Looking good! How do you like the Mr Dissolved Putty? I might be interested in comparing how that works with Mr Surfacer 500, that’s a popular tool of mine as well.
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Great update and progress on the 727 with the custom tweaks. The fundamentals of the Revell kit and the girth of the fuselage particularly at the wing box and underside (in all seriousness) is so realistic to me to the real plane. Airfix did not get this right at all. Laci I think has engines now that are not open or anything. Check them out or Contrails if you can find them. I love that the wheels roll and the air stairs.
Thanks Bro!
i DO have the original iteration of LACI 727-100 engines for the Airfix 727-100 kit (Thank You Darren Tamanaha!!), but i haven’t cut it out of the supports yet.
I have prepared the fuselage flanks to take them but obviously haven’t done any test fitting yet. I think the LACI engine nacelles are the later style, with the Cascade reversers and not the clamshells….but i’m not positive.
-d-
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Looking good! How do you like the Mr Dissolved Putty? I might be interested in comparing how that works with Mr Surfacer 500, that’s a popular tool of mine as well.
Thanks! For want of a better way of describing it, Mr Dissolved Putty has more mass, or “body” to it and it doesn’t wipe or scoop away as readily as Mr Surfacer 500 does. Both have their place in the arsenal but i think Mr Dissolved Putty often responds to the wet q tip trick better than Mr Surfacer 500 does.
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The Revell and Airfix 727-100 kits are decidedly mixed bags. Neither is clearly superior to the other. I like the Airfix wings better, but they botched the vertical fin. However their approach to the horizontal stabilizer integration is better than Revell’s, though (obviously) it can be fixed with some work.
I love the silver Revell plastic, but the engineering of the wings is just…bizarre. The cockpit “cab” is set too high and needs to be lowered significantly so the cabin windows play nice with the side cockpit windows. The end result however, does drastically improve the fuselage profile. Airfix tried to represent the wing surge tank NACA inlets; Revell just paid them lip service.
I do love that silver Revell plastic, however…..
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Good to know, I’ll definitely have to give that a whirl then!
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Nice progress……Good memories of the three Revell 727’s I’ve finished through the years.
Ken
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Brief update:
Taking a second look at the 727 from head on, the model looked a little wonky.
I wound up cracking the left wing off the fuselage at the joint, re-set the dihedral and re-glued it. Geometrically it looks better, though I cracked out a big chunk of filler at the leading edge in the process of removing the wing, so that’s slowly being built back up with CA before sanding.
Looking at the model in plan view, the trailing edges of the wing don’t line up, left to right (the leading edges do), so some building up of the right wing trailing edge is in the cards. Not exactly sure how this happened, but may have happened while thinning down the trailing edge and block-sanding it to make it straight.
Fortunately, i was able to finish the decals on the VC10 last nite. Film at 11.
-d-
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Minor progress update on the strip-mined Revell 727.
after finalizing the wing-fuselage joint, i’ve been doing damage repair to some of the panel lines that got obliterated in the process (not really visible in photos).
Also i installed the airstair door (closed) and attacked it with 150 grit in order for the back end to play nice with the surrounding fuselage.
Finally i block-sanded the mounting surfaces for the No. 2 engine and exhaust pipe and glued the exhaust pipe on. I sawed off the locating “boss” on the fuselage, because they seem to hurt, more than help from a gap-filling standpoint.
The raised detail is gonna come off at some point and be restored…with what i don’t know.
So…. forward progress, nothing dramatic; nothing i’d consider a major milestone. I know the advancing developments of the CRM 727-200 are getting all the buzz today. Hope i’m not perceived as trying to upstage anybody.
-d-
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Okay, so with clear coat drying on the VC10, the DC-8 fuselage halves drying, and a trainwreck with my F4U Corsair project, i needed to do something that didn’t involve more paint, or washes, or smelly solvents.
So i decided to build up the LACI JT8D-7B engines. Good news is, the parts go together pretty good once they’re cut off the posts and cleaned up…
The nacelle pylons are optimized for the Airfix kit, and the slots in the Revell kit are larger and have a different shape, so there’s the whole foil/ CA/ sanding optimization process required.
Bad news is, the cowling clamshell doors are super delicate and i trashed mine while trying to get at the parts i specifically wanted to use. Fortunately, i have 2 sets.
It remains to be see if this gap filling process is gonna require one iteration or two, but so far, so good. I think the detail on Latislav’s castings speak for themselves.
Until next time…..
-d-
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Truly a labor of love. One of my modeling mentors said, “To build a great kit, you have to at least start with a good kit.” You are turning a sow’s ear into a silk purse.
Kind regards,
DutchThanks Dutch!
The engine pylon cleanup work is done. LACI unfortunately does not make early 727 engines with the clamshell-style TR Buckets, which seems to be a thing with these early -100 series planes.
So, i’m faced with the choice of filling the cascade grilles or just leaving things be and taking my chances with the penlight Stasi. In any event, to make things consistent, i’m looking at removing the Revell exhaust on Engine 2 and excavating the inside of the back end to make room for the LACI exhaust.
The locator tongues designed for the Airfix kit are much slimmer than the Revell ones, so the engine nacelles tend to fall off the model when i try to photograph it, unlike those on the VC10.
On a more positive note, Ladislav does great work. You can’t tell by looking at the “opened up” engine, but when you look at Number 3 engine, you can tell he really nailed the shape of the nacelle.
-d-
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“Penlight Stasi,” love it! Great work there. When I get my September sked, I’ll have to jump on the ferry and come see some of your work.
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Like the idea of replacing the #2 exhaust with the LACI part.
I have the LACI engines, but hoping to close the open cowling and smoothing it over.
Gene
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Like the idea of replacing the #2 exhaust with the LACI part.
I have the LACI engines, but hoping to close the open cowling and smoothing it over.
Gene
Well, the LACI cowling panels are literally like eggshells. Super delicate. Wish Latislav made them a bit thicker.
-d-
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Those exhausts looks so real that it makes me feel like I’m standing next to a real B-727.
KGEG
Ray
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I think the engines (Latislav nailed the nacelle shape) and lowering the nose make a huge difference on this model.
The question is: Will the Revell 727-100 kit remain relevant, looking forward??
-d-
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I addressed something else that was bothering me.
There was a mismatch in the wing trailing edges.
I don’t know if somehow the wings were slightly mis-located when i glued them on, or if one wing is actually narrower in chord, or if it was a by-product of the rivet removal process.
At any rate, you could look straight down on the model and see that something wasn’t quite right.
So i bonded a piece of evergreen strip to the trailing edge to broaden the chord slightly then just sanded it down the match the wing cross section.
Problem fixed , and moving on….
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Continued great work and reports……
Nice catch and fix on the trailing edge mismatch. I laugh at myself because 1. I probably would have missed it and 2. If I caught it I would have filed/sanded the longer trailing edge to match.
The engines look beautiful too. The molded cascade thrust reversers look great and gave me a laugh too. Reminded me when I first saw/used the ATP reverser grill decals which were a big improvement over nothing. They were pretty much like small squares of window screen decal.
Things have certainly changed through the years.
Ken
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Things have certainly changed through the years.
Ken
Yes Ken, they sure have….. for the better. Finally, new kits coming on stream to replace these Jurassic throwbacks…
I *did* get the Brengun 727 wheels and probably gonna do the axle treatment much the same way i did with the VC10.
-d-
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I know it’s been a long while but rest assured i have not given up on this thing…
Mating the two disparate cross sections between the LACI T/R fairing and the Revell rear fuselage has required multiple iterations of layering up filler, sanding between layers, allowing drying time, etc. However, i’m happy with the left side.
The right side however, is still in work…
The panel lines are more prominent, because i hosed the model all over with Mr Surfacer Black, then wet sanded it back to bare plastic.
I’m still filling pinholes in the fuselage and the wing roots but forward progress is being made. I haven’t gotten to scribing the wings just yet.
-d-
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Well, just when you might have forgotten about this project, what with all the hoopla surrounding the new CRM 727-100 release….
It’s back!
For starters, you can see from the above photo that i am re-scribing the panel lines. What you see here is the mostly done underside of the left wing…
…And here is the upper side.
I mentioned the CRM kit. The injection-molded wheels as is are a significant improvement over the Revell wheels so….
I’m re-purposing them to the Revell landing gear. I bought the 3D-printed wheel and brake set for my CRM kits, so nothing wasted here.
Why did i return to the 727 at this moment in time?
Easy- i’m waiting for glue to dry on this…
When i get the wings fully rescribed, the majority of that work is done on the model. However, i’m gonna survey the CRM fuselage to see if there’s additional detail on the kit, which i can incorporate into this old dinosaur.
Stay tuned….
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Dave, glad to see you’re picking up with the Revell 727 where you left off last summer. The scribing is looking good, and I predict when you’re finished it will look every bit as good as CRM’s offering. You have shown us the way forward into turning the Revell kit into a work of art. We are modelers, are we not (rather than assemblers)?
I like how the CRM wheels look. The beauty is that you can order them separately for as many Revell or Airfix models as you need. At last count I had around 120 727-200s (Airfix, mostly) and 96 727-100s, probably more Revell than Airfix), all in storage until we move back to the States.
Looking forward to your next installment, and anxious to see the 990 come along.
Cheers!
Tom
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Latest update on the 727….
Most of the panel lines are done.
Once i finished with re-scribing the kit lines that Revell provided, i took a look at the CRM kit, to see what CRM provided that Revell did not.
Most of the major panel lines agree, though in some places their locations are slightly different.
Revell did not include a representation of the “crease” in the fuselage cross section. Rather, they depicted it with a longitudinal panel line.
CRM did depict the crease, so they had to provide no such line as a representation.
The big difference in panel lines, is on the belly on the wing root fairing.
Revell pretty much just phoned things in, with a series of transverse panel lines. CRM went to much more effort, depicting access panels and the ACM exhaust grilles.
To depict those, it was just a matter of mapping out rectangle-shaped access lines with pencil, making them symmetrical, and scribing those in.
Interestingly, Revell depicted round, poppet-shaped cabin outflow valves just in front of the tail skid. CRM omitted these, but they included oval vents just above the engine pylons. CRM also included depictions of the ice inspection lights and the oval-shaped static port locations.
On the wings, the Revell and CRM panel lines largely agree with each other. Revell never thought about the landing lights located on the Krueger flaps. I’m thinking about how to do those.
It’s also starting to look like i might be cutting out the ailerons and re-positioning them slightly. This is partly in order to gain access to the outboard end of the outboard flaps, which had some sort of fairing attached to them. Since my stabilizers are now infinitely adjustable, i’m also thinking about moving the elevators up.
Film at 11.
-d-
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Latest update on the 727….
Most of the panel lines are done.
The big difference in panel lines, is on the belly on the wing root fairing. Revell pretty much just phoned things in, with a series of transverse panel lines. CRM went to much more effort, depicting access panels and the ACM exhaust grilles.
While that may be true on Revell’s part, remember that in 1964 when the kit was issued, 10- and 12-year olds weren’t that interested in the details (but Revell figured they’d like rivets!), particularly on the underside of the aircraft. They wanted to build what they saw at the airport when they picked up Grandma and Grandpa. I’d argue it wasn’t until the 1980s when Clint Groves and ATP (and others) started selling individual detail parts and better after-market decals that we modelers began putting an effort into the details and trying to “get it right” rather than accepting whatever the kit manufacturers put in the box.
We also didn’t have Airliners.net and other sites that offered outstanding photographs taken by people with the proper cameras and lenses to record the details (the shots I took with my Kodak 110 Instamatic hardly showed any details at all). I know I’ve pored over many photos and consulted reference books trying to capture exactly how the tail skid looks on a 757-300 (much different from the skid on a 737NG like what Revell provided with their 737-800).
CRM has carried these improvements, both in design and manufacturing, to incredible heights. They know their customers have access to these references and expect a higher grade of accuracy than perhaps we used to accept when we were younger. We modelers have matured in our skills and expectations, and it’s nice that the industry is responding in kind.
And today, as I am looking over my CRM 727 kit, I noticed on the BOTTOM of the box a beautiful CAD-rendered illustration of the underside of the 727 (who looks on the underside of the kit box?). It looks like it could have come from Boeing’s design shop. What an outstanding resource for getting the underside vents and other details correct! In the past, I relied on detail decals, like Nazca makes, for all the vents and grilles.
Revell provided the blank canvas; it’s up to us to decide how much detail to put on it.
Cheers!
Tom
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I’ve begun re building the wing trailing edges…
The right inboard aileron had a curved trailing edge, so in order to fix this i had to cut it out and re build it.
Aileron is still a kinda work in progress…..
The outboard ailerons were also cut out, so i could add the fairings at the outboard flap ends. More on this later.
-d-
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More progress on the ailerons…
After the aileron was cut out, i built up the fairing with a strip of i think .020 strip stock.
Sanded to shape (maybe?) and faired it in a little bit with Mr Surfacer 500.
The super glue globs have been subsequently cleaned up…
I glued on a piece of strip to the front of the aileron, then sanded it flush and rounded out the front.
I’ve since found some half-round stock in my stash…and i used that on the left aileron.
Stay tuned….
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Today, i built up the first CRM, 3D Resin printed JT-8D.
Results are encouraging.
I experimented with a couple of different colours, but i settled (again) on Tamiya LP-61 for the Front Stator Frame, and Exhaust Diffuser…
I painted the intake throat with Tamiya LP-70, since i had some.
I tried to depict the heated inlet lip with a mix of LP-11 Silver, LP-61 Metallic Grey,tinted with Titanium Silver. Did not quite get the contrast i wanted, but i’ll have another chance to try again when i paint the finished nacelle…
(i dialed up the exposure to make the compressor detail more visible)
The exhaust diffuser (or as i like to call it- the Bundt Cake), fitted into place on the back end perfectly.
I cut off the locating flange of the thrust reverser assembly, but after block-sanding the the butt end, it fit fine.
Since these photos were taken, i primed the whole shebang with Mr Color C8 to find the print layer lines and then sanded the whole nacelle back down to bare resin.
I have to re-engineer the engine pylon attachment point on the side of the fuselage. The pylon is cast as a separate piece that press fits into the engine nacelle, so this leaves you some flexibility with regard to how you want to stage your engine installation.
So far- two thumbs up!
Message ends
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David,
I want to echo Jaime’s compliment and share my own. Over the years I have built 3 Revell 727’s pretty much OOB so yes I am familiar with the basic model. Your project project and write up continue to amaze me. Keep up the good work and best wishes that you complete it.
Ken
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So, here is where we are on the CRM, JT-8D retrofit…
…And there’s the whole aspect of engineering something for it to stick onto…
Then- Drum Roll Please- The test fit of the pylon.
Now i’m working on the cleanup.
-d-
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David,
I want to echo Jaime’s compliment and share my own. Over the years I have built 3 Revell 727’s pretty much OOB so yes I am familiar with the basic model. Your project project and write up continue to amaze me. Keep up the good work and best wishes that you complete it.
Ken
Thanks, Ken.
Work continues and we keep fighting the good fight.
If i can get this model finished , i have an even Doomier Shelf of Doom subject that may be resurrected…..
-d-
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And Now…
The Story, So Far.
Since this photo was taken, the right hand inboard flap fairing got broken off at the tip, so i cut out the remainder, cleaned it up and glued a new strip of .020 to replace it with.
I also put protective tape around all the other fairings. I should have realized this was gonna be an issue.
Right now i am preparing to paint the white solar cap, which extends below the window cheat line, but not quite all the way down to the crease beam.
The nose as everybody um……knows, got the windows filled in and of course the whole shebang was chopped off and lowered.
That…..helps with the appearance, but the somewhat oddly shaped windshield still remained. With all the disparate fillers, sheet plastic, primer, it was visually distracting to look at.
Now, the battle plan was to use the AA cockpit windshield decals on this build, but i still needed some sort of tool to help with the masking and layup of the cheatline as it wraps around the nose. So, i stuck the Vintage Flyer cockpit window masks in place….
The good news is, the AA Windows are accurately shaped, even though the Revell windshield post angles are off.
I have the latitude to either paint over these, or put them back on the backing sheet if i want. Haven’t decided what i’m gonna do just yet.
Just like with United and Pan Am, the lower edge of the cheatline cuts right below the middle side cockpit window and transitions to an antiglare panel at the front. Getting the proper height and width of the cheatline in the cockpit region is critical.
Oh, and i have to make it symmetrical, too.
I was pretty happy with the location and alignment last night but i’m gonna check em again, when the masking job for the waterline is done.
I am halfway through the masking job right now. I might be able to paint the Solar Cap this afternoon. We’ll see.
As always, keep those letters and cards coming.
-d-
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Absolutely amazing work!!!!! Watching from the back row as I have several of these kits in my stash to build at some point. I’m enjoying seeing where improvements are needed and how to do them. The results thus far are awesome. Keep the tutorials coming. I liked the step by step process with this build, and your others as there’s so much to gain; techniques I’ve not thought of. Keep them coming. The bare metal painting tutorial during the 720 and DC-8 build is worth its weight. Best finish I’ve seen. I’m underway at the moment in resurrecting an Entex Boeing 707-320 in 1/100 scale. I built it when I was 13 and it looks it so now I’ve torn it down best I can and in the process of rebuilding it. Also Pan Am like your build will be from what I gather. It’s awesome to see kits from yesterday look like kits of today with some great work and the will to make it happen. Keep it coming.
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