- This topic has 92 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 1 day ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Well, the vertical fin is on and painting has begun.
Setting the height of the solar cap has been done mainly by studying DC-8 photos over on the Northwest Airlines History Center website. The dark blue cheatline is gonna be tougher…
First coat of white revealed imperfect seams on the upper rear fuselage, which mandated sanding down, back to the green plastic, masking off the repair, building the coverage up again, getting it to match adjacent areas, etc. etc….. ugh.
No matter how hard you try and how closely you inspect, you never see anything until the paint goes on.
Ugh.
I will probably do the red tail next…
-d-
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
i really enjoy seeing how you get rid of all those nasty seemlines. Thats how it has to be done!
High quality Airliner Model Accesories
www.cr-models.comi really enjoy seeing how you get rid of all those nasty seemlines. Thats how it has to be done!
It really comes down to having the right tools; the work itself is not that difficult.
Part of the time consuming aspect is figuring out the order of construction. Having said that i wish everybody’s jet engines were as good as these.
-d-
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Part 2…
Tamiya X-7 red, thinned with Mr Leveling Thinner, sprayed over the pink and then summarily carpet-bombed with MLT.
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Why the red on pink? Preshading? Also, is that tailcone a slightly different color than the rest of the fuselage?
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Why the red on pink? Preshading? Also, is that tailcone a slightly different color than the rest of the fuselage?
1) To mess with your head.
No, seriously some people feel that pink makes a better undercoat for Yellow and Red instead of plain old white.
I’m not entirely convinced of it, but i’m experimenting.
2) Yes, the tailcone is a slightly different shade. I dumped my unused white surface primer into my remaining YZC primer and the result is what you see here. The whole tail end is still being figured out but it will be a proper shade of white when all done.
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
And now, the cheatline.
Getting this item right has proven surprisingly difficult…
There is not presently a decal sheet made for the late Northwest DC-8 scheme, and DC-8 windows are markedly different in appearance from Boeing ones.
The cheatline was almost exactly the same width as the height of the windows (just ever so slightly wider) and since i’m going to use the Authentic Airliners window decals for this, it involves masking to very close tolerances.
Further complicating this, is there’s almost nothing in the way of guidance provided on the fuselage for setting the correct height of the cheatline on the fuselage side, much less means for getting it on straight. Even something as simple as correctly-placed door portholes, would have helped.
What i wound up doing was use the longitudinal panel line running along the upper fuselage as a datum. Thru testing i determined the proper width of tape that would “drop down” from that point and establish the upper edge of the cheatline.
Next, again thru trial and error, i came up with a piece of tape the correct width of the cheatline. I laid this down, against the first piece of tape, trying to make sure the tape did not “climb up” or “jump” on to the upper piece of tape.
Finally i laid down a piece of Tamiya Plastic tape for curves against the lower edge of the tape. I probably could have used Tamiya tape as well but i wanted to see how well this would work. Plus i had to coax the tape over the upper wing surfaces.
With the two pieces of tape correctly located (i hope!!), i removed the in-between cheatline tape…
I could have gone straight to the dark blue, but i wanted the make the glass section at the front end more light tight/ opaque, so i laid down a coat of Mr Surface 1000.
I’m glad i did this because i found some areas at the nose that will require some re work. Also i have a “last chance” to check the placement of the cheatline and inspect it for any wiggles or discontinuities.
Sizing the cheatline is also complicated by differing sizes of cabin windows. Those printed on the X-Scale Swissair sheet are slightly larger than the Authentic Airliners ones. This led to some angst about how wide to make the cheatline, also whether it was too high, too low, etc.
I will say the X-Scale masks for the windshield fit pretty well, but they don’t stick to the plastic as well as i’d like..
The best reference i’ve found on the Northwest DC-8 paint schemes is the Northwest Airlines History Center website. While their photo collection isn’t exhaustive, it is enough to go on for the most part. NWA only bought 5 DC-8s, and they were in service for less than 4 years, so it doesn’t surprise me that they’re largely forgotten.
-d-
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Posts: 58Location: Salt Lake CityOccupation: Retired. Twice: Civilian HR manager and US Army officer- I like the mismatched tail cone. It looks authentically like a replacement tail cone made it’s way onto the bird.
- Are the Tamiya tape on the wing tips to prevent damage?
Great job!
Robert V. Leonard
- I like the mismatched tail cone. It looks authentically like a replacement tail cone made it’s way onto the bird.
- Are the Tamiya tape on the wing tips to prevent damage?
Great job!
1) in this case the mismatched tailcone is temporary. I found a seam on the tail cone and had to fill, sand and re-prime. It will be a *closer* match when all is said and done.
2) Yes, the Tamiya tape is a preventative “Anti-Bonk” measure.
-d-
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Looking good. Love the cheatline idea, I’ll have to keep that in mind for my 707-700 build.
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
State of play.
Getting the white-trimmed red “Sash” was not easy. Partly because i’m going solely from photos, and not copying dimensions off of someone’s decal sheet.
took 2 attempts to get to this point….
Up next is more fun with narrow strips of tape, then fill in with the red.
Keep the letters and cards coming!
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
OK, here’s my first crack at the red.
It’s not perfect, but it’s a place to start from. I can now look forward to putting on the blue stripe.
-d-
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Amazing hard work on this DC8 bird.
I do think the pink paint underneath the red makes sense as I have had white still appear in the seems. Same with dark blue paints with dark gloss gray underneath to help or your color of choice. White underneath some of these primary colors can have seems and look sloppy.
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Amazing hard work on this DC8 bird.
I do think the pink paint underneath the red makes sense as I have had white still appear in the seems. Same with dark blue paints with dark gloss gray underneath to help or your color of choice. White underneath some of these primary colors can have seems and look sloppy.
Seams that show up under paint, seem (pun intended) to crop up more visibly with airliners than with military aircraft.
Building airliners is hard. It requires a different skill set than a F-16.
-d-
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
OK the nose sash and (most) of the left hand cheat line are on.
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
The red “Sash”, AKA the “Mustache” has definitely been the most difficult part of the build (setting the location of the cheatline was the second hardest).
It’s still not perfect, but better off than when i started. I’m not sure if i will leave it as-is, or make a third attempt at improving it. Any corrections to the radii at the front will no doubt involve sanding the radome back to bare plastic and starting over.
As far as i know, this paint scheme hasn’t been attempted before on the X-Scale kit. Somebody has to go first, and whomever goes first is gonna make mistakes.
For right now though i’ll work on getting the cheatlines finished.
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
You did a super job eyeballing the bottom edge of the white crown, and the vertical position of the cheatline, considering that the kit manufacturer totally failed to provide any panel lines showing the vertical position of the window belt. To my mind, that’s one of the most important details to get right, and you hit it bang on.
We modelers did ask the kit manufacturers to stop making window holes in kits since we preferred decals, but unfortunately some also stopped giving us nice engraved lines showing where the the window belt is located. To my eye, a cheatline doesn’t have to be misplaced by very much vertically, to totally ruin the appearance of an otherwise well done kit.
Keep up the fantastic work,
Cheers,
Mike M.
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Hi Mike,
Thanks!
You know, something as simple as accurately-placed portholes in the cabin doors would have helped tremendously. That was a big reason why i did not do the early Northwest scheme, where the Logo is shoehorned into a blue stripe, that runs above the cabin windows, before slanting down at a 45 degree angle at the forward cabin door porthole.
I got the right side cheatline on last nite. Thankfully it came out as good as the left one.
The anti glare needs to go on the nose. what i’m debating on now, is if i should leave the pinstripes on the nose, or sand everything back and try to re-mask and re paint them…
-d-
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Cheat lines at the tail are on; horizontal tailplanes painted (test fitted here for photography only).
With the colours mapped in on the model, its a matter of tweaking and cleanup, before it all gets masked in preparation for the bare metal.
-d-
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Posts: 58Location: Salt Lake CityOccupation: Retired. Twice: Civilian HR manager and US Army officerI’ve never painted cheat lines. Is there a reason why you paint them in segments, like the tail area, instead of a continuous cheat line from nose to tail?
I sort of see the reasoning of doing port and starboard at different times.
Whatever your reason, your results are masterful.
Robert V. Leonard
I’ve never painted cheat lines. Is there a reason why you paint them in segments, like the tail area, instead of a continuous cheat line from nose to tail?
I sort of see the reasoning of doing port and starboard at different times.
Whatever your reason, your results are masterful.
Hi Robert,
to answer your question, there were a couple of things in play:
- I was not initially sure of the curvature of the rear cheatline and how it ended on the tailcone, i needed more time to figure that part out.
- My overriding objective was the get the cheatline the correct width, and make it as straight as possible. Best way to do that was to just terminate the masking job where the line started to change shape.
- I was still figuring out the interaction of the cheatline with the horizontal stab fairings, that pivot with the tailplane.
The kit fuselage does not provide a window belt line, no cabin door portholes, nothing. All i had for reliable references were the longitudinal panel line running along the upper fuselage, and the crease beam (where the upper and lower fuselage lobes come together).
I was largely relying on just eyeballing it, going from photos. The “Keep it simple, stupid” ethos predominates here.
Based on my build experience with my 2 VC-10s, i can say its best to do the bulk of the cheatline as one continuous stripe, rather than break it down into shorter segments. Trying to get multiple cheatline segments to butt together and stay straight over distance is very hard. Doing the left and right cheatlines as two entirely separate painting evolutions is recommended, because you can correct a mistake more easily if you only have to fix it once.
-d-
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Hopefully, this is the last of the truly tricky masking jobs. These fairings seem to be a common characteristic of Douglas aircraft, being present on the AD Skyraider, A3D Skywarrior and A4D Skyhawk.
It took a bit of study to figure out what i was actually looking at…
My first attempt was to lay a piece of Tamiya tape over another fuselage half, take a tracing of the amoeba-shaped line, and then try to cut out a mask from it. Seemed good in theory but i couldn’t cut it accurately enough. Hence the “Cedar Shake Roofing” technique.
The lower part below the blue cheatline will be covered by more bare metal paint.
The Roden Boeing 720B doesn’t have quite exactly this feature, but it has its own special places that are gonna be difficult to paint, not to mention it’s share of engineering challenges.
Fortunately for us, the Tailplanes fit well.
-d-
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Posts: 58Location: Salt Lake CityOccupation: Retired. Twice: Civilian HR manager and US Army officerAs Spock says, “Fascinating.”
The “Cedar Shake Roofing” technique is ingenious and one I’ve never seen before. Gotta remember that.
Do you mask the interior of the amoeba to get the ring shape?
Robert V. Leonard
The ring/ amoeba shape that delineates the moving part of the horizontal stabilizer assembly, is made solely by laying narrow strips of tape around the outline; the combination of enough very short straight lines forming a close enough approximation of a curved line in order to get the job done.
The inside is then sprayed silver.
Lastly the white part above the stab and the blue part below the stab are masked and painted using the same technique, with lots of tape laid around to mitigate overspray.
The big amoeba shape comes off at the very end, with all the other masking.
I use this same technique for masking things like wing/body fairings, etc.
-d-
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
What I really want to know is what’s your plan is for the titles? So far your work on doing the mustache as been a trophy skill. To be judged by a photo compellation at a model competition. The thing about titles they look easy til they’re done and then you see the smallest of errors to the shape of the text. Be it the smallest shape of a text letter or the center of the “O” in the text, there’s that fear of what to do if it goes wrong. If your going to have your text printed as a decal what are your ideas on it being fully opaque against the dark blue fuselage band? Laying two decals over one another makes the two text stripes stand out prominently above the painted blue band. What are you plans (I gave up on my Electra when I saw the blue shadow thru the white title text)?
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Another idea would be to deepen the panel line that outlines the amoeba shape, lay some frosted or thin paper tape over the area, then using a fresh blade, cut through the tape in the panel line and remove the center to expose the amoeba shape.
Gene
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Another idea would be to deepen the panel line that outlines the amoeba shape, lay some frosted or thin paper tape over the area, then using a fresh blade, cut through the tape in the panel line and remove the center to expose the amoeba shape.
Gene
Sounds good in theory, and some people may feel comfortable taking a sharp blade to their model, but i’m not one of those people. It was tricky enough tracing thru Tamiya tape to get the shape of the outline with a sharp No. 2 pencil.
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
What I really want to know is what’s your plan is for the titles? So far your work on doing the mustache as been a trophy skill. To be judged by a photo compellation at a model competition. The thing about titles they look easy til they’re done and then you see the smallest of errors to the shape of the text. Be it the smallest shape of a text letter or the center of the “O” in the text, there’s that fear of what to do if it goes wrong. If your going to have your text printed as a decal what are your ideas on it being fully opaque against the dark blue fuselage band? Laying two decals over one another makes the two text stripes stand out prominently above the painted blue band. What are you plans (I gave up on my Electra when I saw the blue shadow thru the white title text)?
Well, there’s “Plan A”, “Plan B” and “Plan C”.
Plan A is for somebody i know to make some decals which feature the NWA Script on the cheatline, “DC-8 Intercontinental” label on the aft fuselage P&W engine Logos and the characteristic “Northwest” in Dark Blue for the fuselage and white for the tail. I can harvest the N- Numbers from the 26 Decals sheet.
Plan B is to harvest the markings from the Flying Colors 707-351 sheet.
Plan C is to harvest the markings from the old Microscale 727-100 sheet.
Interestingly, i have no shortage of DC-8 cabin windows.
I’d say the biggest technical hurdle will be the Northwest Orient Airlines script on the blue cheatline.
We still have a ways to go, before decals start going on.
So whats the present status of your Electra?
-d-
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Don’t know if you’ve noticed, but the Northwest Orient Airlines script the sits in the cheatline behind the main cabin door is included on the Flying Colors 707 sheet in both white and blue. Might be that the white is an underlay for the blue/red script.
Gene
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Don’t know if you’ve noticed, but the Northwest Orient Airlines script the sits in the cheatline behind the main cabin door is included on the Flying Colors 707 sheet in both white and blue. Might be that the white is an underlay for the blue/red script.
Gene
Gene, i did not know that!
I will pull out the sheet and look at it. Film at 11.
-d-
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Below the white Northwest tail titles, next to the flags.
G
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
I now understand your aims with your DC-8. Up to this time I had been expecting a DC-4, DC-6, DC-7C, L-1049, B-377 and Electra schemes they are for the most part what I remember from the late 60’s. However, looking at the “Northwest Airlines History Center” web site I saw DC-8 photos seemed to be the only ones that carried both banner and crown titles in life. It seems all Boeings carried title above and forward from day one of acceptance. If the DC-8 had both types while in service. I now understand your Plans B & C. I now for one would try one of those.
My kit, the ATP of LOCKHEED “NORTHWEST” ELECTRA was in the very early scheme with the totally white lower banner rather than the inset red mustache outlined in white (I did mine with dry red decal atop a Zerox of blank pattern of the kit decal to achieve the inner shape). I used it on the later Minicraft ELECTRA kit with a revised LS P-3 ORION wing. And your right the windows are the least of the problem (mine were coming from the AMERICAN AIRLINES Electra). Alas, the kit still languishes today unfished, the ministripe under the tail plane did me in.
Good luck on your project I’ll be a constant follower of your work.
Electraglider
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
P&W logos are included on the Avigraphics DC-8 detail sheet, and on the Liveries Unlimited engine logo sheet.
G
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Not a gigantic construction milestone, but i got the “Hard Candy Shell” on the model a couple nights ago and it’s now time to mask everything off in preparation for the first round of bare metal.
Before the clear coat went on, i added one more coat of Tamiya white surface primer to the crown/ solar cap to even things out and eliminate some slight translucent areas where i sanded the primer down perhaps a little too much…mainly in the back near the empennage.
Believe it or not, i applied the super clear (as well as the subsequent carpet bomb with MLT) over the unmasked eyebrow windows, with no ill effects.
Tailplanes come off… then the masking begins.
-d-
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
-D-,
I’m really enjoying the chronicles of your effort to build the X-Scale DC-8 (and to everyone who contributed at the beginning of the thread so I know where to plan around the wings, the engines, and other pitfalls of the kit), and now that you’re into the painting I’m excited to see the next installment.
Regarding your plans for decals, I went down a similar path to make a Northwest Orient 720-51B from the Roden kit and a 727-51 from the Revell kit (I was thoroughly entertained by your description of building that one!). First, Northwest adopted this scheme around 1960 when the 707-351s and 720-51s joined the fleet. It is simpler than the one that came before it, as you explained to us in your description of painting the cheat lines (you can see an example of that scheme on the Vintage Flyer Decals website for the Northwest DC-7C and Lockheed Electra II).
I used the Flying Colors Northwest Orient 707 sheet on the Minicraft kit (the Minicraft decal set had too many errors for my taste) and the Microscale 727 set on the Revell kit. When it came time to apply decals to the Roden 720B, I decided to use the large “Northwest” titles from the Microscale 727 set (and everything else but the reg numbers) since the titles on the Flying Colors sheet seemed larger and more spread apart; no doubt they actually were in order to spread across a longer 707-351 fuselage. I used the red “sash” from the Microscale 727 set for the Roden 720 model, figuring if it fit on the Revell 727 it’ll work on the Roden 720; it ‘s a Boeing nose, right? Unfortunately, there is just enough variation in the geometry between kit and decal printer that it didn’t fit quite right. You were brave, but correct, to tape off your own sash and my hat’s off to you for the outstanding results! By the way, the “sash” which went underneath the windshield around to the other side of the aircraft, was later simplified (around 1968 or so) to two “darts” on either side of the nose that stopped at the nose cone. The DC-8s didn’t stay in Northwest’s fleet long enough to be affected by that change.
My 707 and 720 models are incomplete since I haven’t figured out how to get the correct white titles that sit just ahead of the horizontal stab. The 720 titles read “Boeing 720B” with the “720B” as white outlines (up to 1964, then solid until 1970), and the 707 titles read “Intercontinental Boeing 320” with “Intercontinental” in tiny letters across the top and “Boeing 320” underneath with the “320” much larger than the “Boeing”. On the DC-8 the titles read, “DC-8 Intercontinental” with the “Intercontinental” underneath “DC-8”.
I am excited to see how the model looks after you apply the bare metal finish!
Tom
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Tom, the insanity that is the bare metal finish is underway.
I’m making it up as i go along.
-d-
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Phase 1 of the bare metal misadventure. Frought with drama, risk…possibly a car crash.
The original plan was to lay down a coat of Tamiya LP11 as a base layer. This worked fine for the fuselage, but i was less than thrilled with how the wings came out. Predictably, there were sanding scratches, seam shrinkage and some pitting in places and in the end, the wings were sanded back to bare plastic in the process of correcting all this.
Went back with the *last* of my LP-11, and back to square one.
So, much to my surprise, i discovered these in my paint stash…
As Hans Landa would say- “It’s a Bingo!”.
Anyway, I started by painting the plane overall with the SM 208.
Douglas was a big user of Duralumin, and unlike later airpliners there was very little Corogard to be seen on early DC-8s, so..why not?
Not knowing exactly where to go from here, i noticed that the oval wing fuel tank access plates contrasted with the fairly shiny upper wing plank. So, i found a suitable oval-shaped scribing template, and taped it down and sprayed thru it using Tamiya LP-38 Flat Aluminium.
Took a while, but for the most part it looks good.
Next i tried the SM 201 on the outermost wing leading edge segments…
It’s kind of hard to see the contrast with the Super Dural, but trust me it’s on there.
Next i tried out the MC218. Honestly i was expecting this to behave like Metalizer Buffing aluminium, but no. Maybe i’m not following the instructions right. Anyways, i used it on the upward folding section of the wing flaps, and around the slots on the wing leading edge.
We will keep you posted as this story develops.
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Today i added SM-201 to the wing leading edges and the ailerons.
All masking was done with Tamiya tape and 3M 2093 painters tape.
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
More progress, well past bedtime.
Masked off the upper wing plank, aft of the rear spar and shot it with decanted Tamiya AS-12. Behaves almost identically to LP-11.
As with the other metal shades, the differences are subtle and you need to spin the model around a lot to see the contrasts.
But for now…. sleep.
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
Looking great, I love the subtle shading differences! That one’s coming together nicely.
Edit your Profile to get a forum signature.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.