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Just wondering if anyone has started building the new X-Scale DC-8, and what their experience has been thus far. I have assembled the wing halves and the flight deck. It seems a little overly putsy in some respects. The four panels that attach to the top of the wings fit poorly and require a lot of sanding and fitting. These are the panels that are behind the leading edges where the pylon fairings come over the top of the wing.
None of the cockpit itemsāseats Ā in particularāwill mount without fine tuning. The corner supports for the cockpit floor corners that mount in the fuselage halves are difficult to handle due to their small size. Donāt understand why the supports couldnāt be molded in to the fuselage halves. Seems like a lot of over engineering that results in a lot of busy-work. Maybe things will improve as I get further into construction. The profile seems right on, but I am disappointed so far.
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Some of the guys have been discussing the building the X-Scale DC-8 in the original thread here. They brought up some instruction sheet miscues as well as fit issues.
Kind regards,
DutchThe instructions are misleading to me especially on putting the engines together.
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Iāve started two of these DC-8 models. Overall the shape is captured beautifully. However the engines are a bit of a challenge figuring out the proper alignment of their components. Wish the instructions were clearer in this aspect. The tail cone is slightly too pointed. I sanded it to better represent the DC-8s curves. Itās a subtle adjustment.
The air conditioning inlets under the nose seemed slightly too narrowā¦.using a round sanding stick, I deepened the concave areas on the fuselage before attaching the panels on each side. Iāve also created the flat antenna on the forward bottom of the fuselage using a piece of flat styrene sheet. Like others have mentioned, the parts to represent the upper pylon wrap over are a little challenging and require some sanding to lay flush.
One model Iām building is with a care down, and the exhaust rings extended on the engines. I purchased the aftermarket resin flaps wing slots. Unfortunately, I had already glued the wings together before cutting out the areas for the new flap and slot positions. This by far has been the most challenging, especially with the look of the open slots on the wings which brought up to the pylons. I have purchased aftermarket white metal Landing gear. Thought they would be easier to assemble and attach.
at this stage I have applied white primer by Tamia. Over this Iāll apply a clear coat then I plan on spray painting the metal surfaces then decals Ā Overall, this company has nailed the look of the classic, short body Douglas DC-8. I sincerely hope a decal company will release the āhockey stickā Eastern Airlines livery with the correct curtained passenger windows in the near future.
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Looks beautiful, Mark! Darren Tamanaha is building one as well, and he too got burned by the bad fit of the overwing pylon “inserts” . Aside from that, the shape of the model looks pretty good.
-d-
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To begin, i didnāt bother with the flight deck. Too much effort for very little reward IMHO. My biggest beef has to do with wing seams. With this model, not unlike the EE Airbus 220 kits, the seam between upper and lower wing parts goes arbitrarily right across flaps and ailerons. Would have been SO much better if the parts followed the edges of the control surfaces. Detail is lost in effort to get rid of the seams. Same applies to elevators and rudder. Too bad!
Instructions are vague concerning engine options, as mentioned elsewhere.
Kit captured the Eightās lines well but the modeler has to work for the prize!
Frank van der Voet
Calgary, AB, CanadaTo begin, i didnāt bother with the flight deck. Too much effort for very little reward IMHO. My biggest beef has to do with wing seams. With this model, not unlike the EE Airbus 220 kits, the seam between upper and lower wing parts goes arbitrarily right across flaps and ailerons. Would have been SO much better if the parts followed the edges of the control surfaces. Detail is lost in effort to get rid of the seams. Same applies to elevators and rudder. Too bad!
Instructions are vague concerning engine options, as mentioned elsewhere.
Kit captured the Eightās lines well but the modeler has to work for the prize!
I agree about the joints running diagonally across the control surfaces. It drives me nuts. Best explanation i can think of is, it allows a thinner wing trailing edge…
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I agree about the joints running diagonally across the control surfaces. It drives me nuts. Best explanation i can think of is, it allows a thinner wing trailing edgeā¦That isn’t unique to X-Scale. Zvezda are guilty of it as well particularly on stabs. I have two Zvezda 737s on the bench as I write so I speak from experience!
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To begin, i didnāt bother with the flight deck. Too much effort for very little reward IMHO. My biggest beef has to do with wing seams. With this model, not unlike the EE Airbus 220 kits, the seam between upper and lower wing parts goes arbitrarily right across flaps and ailerons. Would have been SO much better if the parts followed the edges of the control surfaces. Detail is lost in effort to get rid of the seams. Same applies to elevators and rudder. Too bad!
Instructions are vague concerning engine options, as mentioned elsewhere.
Kit captured the Eightās lines well but the modeler has to work for the prize!
To begin, i didnāt bother with the flight deck. Too much effort for very little reward IMHO. My biggest beef has to do with wing seams. With this model, not unlike the EE Airbus 220 kits, the seam between upper and lower wing parts goes arbitrarily right across flaps and ailerons. Would have been SO much better if the parts followed the edges of the control surfaces. Detail is lost in effort to get rid of the seams. Same applies to elevators and rudder. Too bad!
Instructions are vague concerning engine options, as mentioned elsewhere.
Kit captured the Eightās lines well but the modeler has to work for the prize!
I agree about the joints running diagonally across the control surfaces. It drives me nuts. Best explanation i can think of is, it allows a thinner wing trailing edgeā¦
I agree about the joints running diagonally across the control surfaces. It drives me nuts. Best explanation i can think of is, it allows a thinner wing trailing edgeā¦That isnāt unique to X-Scale. Zvezda are guilty of it as well particularly on stabs. I have two Zvezda 737s on the bench as I write so I speak from experience!
with some few exceptions, this is an issue of moulding technology, especially with short run. If you would see the lower trailing edge part to go along the flap, chances are very high to get sinkmarks at the top. The other option is to have 2 complete wing halfs, but then the trailing edge also is quite thick and so on. i am pretty sure zvezda does it for the same reason.
We are facing the same issue with our B727, that is why also our wing’s lower trailing edge crosses flight controls. You simply need to rescribe it.
High quality Airliner Model Accesories
www.cr-models.comAs i’m presently
sufferingprogressing through my second VC10, i can assure everybody that the separate upper and lower wing half approach is not all unicorns and skittles, either.
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Darren Tamanaha does suggest cutting off the supporting flanges for the upper wing pylon inserts so they may be installed more level and flush with the upper wing planks.
Haven’t tried this yet, but i have 5 DC-8s waiting to try the idea out on…
-d-
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Gee guys, now Iām not as excited to start this kit as I was before. On vacation in Germany and the kit has already arrived at my home in South Carolina. However, a challenge is a welcome break from all the other kits that just fall together. Mark Dās is looking good in primerā¦ā¦ā¦..nice work!
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I finally got round to assembling the upper wings.
Darren was spot on: If you carefully saw and carve away the flanges that the inserts rest on, you can lower them and get them to sit more or less flush with the adjacent wing plank, so they can be sanded flush with the adjacent wing and it will look like a more or less unified surface.
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The issues with fit and gaps are not insurmountable but you do need the right tools.
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DC-8 Empennage surfaces assembled and cleaned up.
The gap running vertically through the rudder needed filling with black Starbond CA, but the actual fit was pretty good. Not much restoration of surface detail required; just two paraller lines running diagonally chord wise, and of course the skin joints where they wrap around the leading edge.
The Vertical fin slides into an aerofoil-shaped cavity, and you’re on your own to get the alignment right. However, with the fuselage halves just taped together, the fit is pretty good. I might fill the gaps at the base with Mr Dissolved Putty, or i might to the bare metal foil and CA trick again.
The Horizontal Stabs also assemble well. Similar gaps running diagonally across the elevator undersides, but not nearly as big.
More panel lines to restore on these, but nothing insurmountable. Once assembled, they fit into their respective slots with a snug press fit.
Normally i’d be working on the 720 or the 727, but with my Roden VC10 in the end game, i think one traumatic model at a time is the best way to go.
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Great build so far ????āļø????āļø????āļøāļø
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The re-scribing of the wings is done and i’m now in the process of cleaning up the engine pylons and mating them to the wing planks.
Just taking things slow; building, cleaning up, mounting and filling one at a time.
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No. 4 engine pylon is installed and cleaned up. Fit was not bad actually.
The left and right halves go together pretty well, with no mismatch to speak of. The abrupt angle change where the upper pylon meets the leading edge takes some getting used to. However, as long as the pylons are properly aligned when glued into place, the resulting gaps were easy to fill. Very little in the way of gaps between the lower wing plank and the upper pylon, which was nice.
The fit to the lower wing plank was positive and stable. Not wobbly and tenuous like the pylon-wing fit in the Roden 720B, which is a welcome change.
Next up is to build up the No. 4 engine pod to assess its overall fit as well as its integration with said pylon.
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The construction looks a bit rough, but i built up the Number 4 engine pod on the X-Scale DC-8.
Where your garden-variety Revell DC-8s might have maybe 3 to 5 parts, your typical X-Scale engine (not including the pylon, mind you) has..10.
Deciphering the proper parts to use for the translating ejector rings took some head scratching, but once properly identified, they clean up off the sprue pretty good and go together well.
I know the ejectors should probably be slid back a bit more, but it least here it will all friction-fit together, for photography purposes.
The tube on the back end of the engine pod includes a boss for the resin cast organ pipes, which sawed off the casting posts easily and will press fit without too much fuss. The biggest overall hazard here is there are no locator pins. So, clean up the parts carefully, test fit and work slowly.
Actually, that’s not exactly true. There is one locating pin and its sort of a doozy.
X-Scale wanted to provide a means of positive location of the pod onto the pylon and they integrated a locating pin into each pod half.
A whole locating pin. You can probably see where this is going.
Obviously this won’t work. So, i took my trusty UMM razor saw and carefully sliced off half of each locating pin, and the resulting change allows the halves to come together. Massimo Santarossa mentioned this in his online build from a while back but i didn’t quite understand what he meant.
The front of the engine incorporates a one-piece inlet ring with oil cooler inlet (very cleanly molded) and inside the intake a two-piece stator front frame and first stage compressor disk which gives it a cool 3-dimensional effect when assembled. The front piece inlet ring should make the overall cleanup task a lot easier.
So, this will get set aside to set up for a while, as i get back to the VC10.
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Convair990,
Thanks for all the in progress photos and tips you’ve been posting on this. You’re creating a great tutorial for those of us who haven’t gotten into the kit yet.
Gene
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Convair990,
Thanks for all the in progress photos and tips youāve been posting on this. Youāre creating a great tutorial for those of us who havenāt gotten into the kit yet.
Gene
I think there’s some…..um, skepticism about the model, but so far compared to the Rodent VC10 this thing is a gem.
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OK folks, here is the Number 4 engine pod cleaned up. It’s test fitted to the pylon, and after reading Jeff Jarvis’ comments last nite, i built up the other Translating Ejector…
Number 3 engine is glued up and drying.
david
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This is the best photo I can find of this arrangement. Hope it helps.
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This is the best photo I can find of this arrangement. Hope it helps.
Itza nice photo. Keep in mind that translating ejector is just held in place by the organ pipes inside. When the model is assembled, the ejectors will be slid back further to their correct position.
-d-
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The Engines.
I more or less have this area wrapped up now and i wanted to hold off before i made a fairly lengthy report.
First of all, when it comes to installing the engines, you can go about it one of two ways: 1) you could build up the engine pods, build up the pylons, put the two together and then integrate that into the wing.
or…
2) You can build up the pylons, integrate them with the wing first, and then add the pods late in construction.
I decided to go with plan B.
The Pylons
First of all, the halves of the pylons fit very well together, the one (recurring!) caveat is the kit doesn’t have any locating pins. You need to carefully inspect the mating surfaces for fit and block-sand any places where the parts don’t come together smoothly (i use a GodHand 400 grit sanding block).
The fit of the pylons to the wing under surfaces is excellent. Very little in the way of gaps between the pylon top and the lower wing plank.
Also, the pylon is sufficiently broad and with the locating pins the joint is stable and positive. Nothing at all like the engine pylons on the Roden 720B, where the pylon locating pins are too small, the upper/lower mismatch more acute, and those raised pads on the lower surface of the wing that hurt more than help.
The gaps at the leading edge of the wing and the tops of the pylons were easily filled with black Starbond CA. The GodHand sanding blocks come in very handy for maneuvering around the joints as you sand them down. Flexifiles will probably also work, but you need a sanding tool that’s at least semi-rigid.
The Engine Pods
The pods themselves go together pretty well, though as Massimo Santarossa pointed out, X-Scale mistakenly added a full-diameter, round locating pin to each half of the engine pod. Clearly this won’t fly (pun intended). However, using a JLC saw along the pod mating surface allowed me to slice off half of each locating pin, and once the surfaces have been block sanded a bit, the halves come together just fine.
The other thing to watch out for, are the 2-piece tubes that go in the back end (parts D15/38 and D18/35).
These represent the “Hot Section” of the JT-4 and the noise suppressor “organ pipes” attach to the back end of this. The front end incorporates a flange to serve as a locator for the tube inside the bigger engine pod, but as is, it’s too big in diameter.
Once i glued the halves together, i went all the way round with a 150 grit sanding block, and i progressively sanded town the flange, test fit, sanded more off, test fit again, etc. Until the engine pod halves would close around these things. Then all was well.
The organ pipes are nicely cast and go on to the back of the tubes pretty well, but they *may* be a little bit “gappy” in places. I ran some Mr Surfacer 500 around the joint and then removed the excess with a q tip damp with Mr Leveling Thinner.
The front of the engine incorporates what i think is the stator front frame, and then behind it goes a disc comprising the first stage compressor. This 2 part combination looks really cool and fits well. The location scheme is pretty good, though you’re on your own in terms of aligning the front stator frames to the proper “12 O’Clock’ position so the upper and lower frame are in alignment with the upper and lower pod joints. Some of mine came out OK, others not but i don’t consider this a show stopper. Once in place, the left and right pod halves come together with no fuss. After block sanding the front face of the pod halves, the front intake rings (Parts D20/22) go on easily.
After the glue set up, i went in with a scriber and deepened the panel lines that run laterally across the joints and then i sanded the seams. The pods cleaned up quickly and easily with no mismatch between halved. The front ends needed some sanding to better blend them in with the intake rings, but it was not a surprise and the work was minor.
The engines feature a single short, stubby locator pin and they plugs into hole on the pylon underside snugly. At the back end of the pod upper, just upstream of the translating ejectors, there is a notch that needs to be opened out a bit to avoid a noticeable gap between engine pod and pylon.
Since i was planning to add the pods very late in the game- and possibly after they’d been painted- i wanted to avoid any “daylight gaps” at the very front end. So, i went back to my tried and true schtick of laying down a piece of bare metal foil on the engine pod, glued the composite onto the pylon with black CA, allowed it to dry, then cracked off the engine pod/foil composite from the pylon and cleaned up the pylon (s).
(this here is Number 3 engine pylon but you get the idea).
With this done, the fit of the engine pod to the pylon (which was already pretty good) is even a little bit better now.
A note about the translating ejectors: X-Scale is kind of vague in terms of the options they’re offering the builder. You can build the nacelles with the ejectors retracted, the ejectors deployed, or deployed with the T/R clamshell buckets opened. You need to select the right kind of ejector halves (in my case i used D36/37 and D14/42 but without the clamshell buckets), but the individual halves fit together well, and there is in fact a rail on the pylons and a slot on the ejectors that make for positive fit and easy installation of said translating ejectors onto the engine/pylon combination.
Note here that i just slid the ejectors in place and they’re wrapped around the organ pipes to hold them in place. In real life, the ejectors would be slid fully back to the aft stops.
So, that’s my synopsys on the DC-8 engines. Compared to the continuing drama that is Vickers VC10 number 2, this kit is a gem.
And it looks cool, with all the pods popped into place…
With that out of the way, its time to finalize the fuselage.
Questions, comments, suggestions, are welcome.
david
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Big challenge with finding correctly scaled decals that align with this beautiful kitās accurate geometry. Landing gear are proving difficult for me in spite of a plethora of resources. Bit by bit ????
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One thing that I’ve discovered is that the Minicraft tail is slightly larger than the X-Scale tail. Decals that fully cover the tail, and designed to fit the Minicraft kit, will be too large for the X-Scale kit. One example is the Delta widget scheme; using a photocopy to test the fit, it would have to be trimmed to fit the tail, which then changes the placement of the Delta title relative to the rudder hinge line.
Mike at Vintage Flyer will be resizing his DC-8 decals to fit the X-Scale kit.
Gene
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David,
Thank you for the masterclass in building, fitting, and adjusting the X-Scale DC-8.Ā I have been following closely and will apply all of your hints & tips.
Gene,
Good catch on the size difference between DC-8 kits and decals.Ā Before Minicraft released their DC-8, all we ever had was the Revell DC-8-10/61.Ā Both were slightly oversized and scaled out to 1:143, hence all the old decals that were sized to that kit were too large for the Minicraft kit, and now, according to your latest test, also too large for the X-Scale kit.
Hmm.Ā I may have to rethink my whole kit to decal match-up plan.
Kind regards,
DutchThanks, Dutch. Happy to help. There was a lot of pearl clutching at first when people saw the engineering on this kit, and i simply wanted to determine if the fear was all that warranted. It isn’t.
As of right now, most of the fuselage has been finalized; the area i’m working on now is the air conditioning scoops on the nose. Not sure if Mark D’s experience is the same but so far these have been the worst fitting parts of the kit.
They’re all sanded and blended in, but i still need to re-scribe the missing details in the vicinity, some of which co from the fuselage onto the scoops. The canopy has been test fitted and adjusted, and goes into place with no difficulties.
And then of course the X-Scale Electra arrived, and i needed to drop everythingĀ just to fondle and test fit THAT one, before reality set in. A VC10, 727, DC-8 and 720B are more than enough airliners in the pipeline for right now.
-d-
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Hmmm.
I wonder how that will complicate that big red tail.
Something else i noticed is the cross section of the Minicraft vertical fin is sort of rectangular on the front, with a somewhat blunt, squarish leading edge. Leading edge and cross section of the X-Scale fin is a lot more refined and aerfoil shaped, but keep in mind they engineered it as a separate assembly from the fuselage.
More of an observation, than a wanton desire to count rivets.
-d-
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yeah, i wound up doing something similar.
-d-
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Small progress update.
After languishing in the closet for months while wrapping up other model projects, i got back to the Diesel 8, and installed the cockpit..Cab??
The kit-provided masks fit pretty good.
Since these photos were taken, the cab has been mostly blended into place and she’s got a primer on the nose now.
Wing lower carry-through piece is next. Watch this space…
-d-
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More pics…
Some of the panel lines sort of inexplicably stop in mid air. I need to determine where those continue to, but i’d call the heavy lifting of this part, all done.
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Progress update on the DC-8.
Not knowing any better, on this first one i decided to follow the instructions and install the center wing carry-through piece to the belly first. Fit was OK, not great. I filed the “saddle” of the rear portion of the fuselage cutout so as to mitigate the “step” between the tailing edge of the center section, and the fuselage. Some wheel well door detail was sanded/filed through,Ā so i will need to make some scribing templates so i can restore these. Same goes for the cargo door on the right side, closest to the wing leading edge.
The left wing had more of a gap where it abutted the fuselage as well as the lower wing carry through section. The right wing joint wasn’t nearly as bad on top.
Which is why i wonder if following the instructions, was such a great idea.
Once again, i laid down a piece of bare metal foil on the left upper fuselage fairing, taped the left wing in place and filled the gap with a mix of Zap a Gap and dental resin powder. Accelerated it, let it harden for 20 minutes, removed the wing and the foil and sanded off the excess resin/CA. Gap much improved.
Glued the left wing on, using a combination of Tamiya White Cap and extra thin liquid cement. Photos to come.
-d-
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Finally satisfied with the blending in of the windshield, i relented and glued the wings on today.
I need to let things cook, before i go in and fill those gaps on the wing undersides.
But hey- progress!
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Progress report on The Ocho…
I initially had some trepidation about how this would go. I’m happy to report that the trick using the CA and acrylic resin mix worked out as hoped, drastically closing up the gap on the upper wing root. The first application of Mr Surfacer 1000 did a remarkably good job covering up what remained to be done (though i will apply a second layer, probably…)
the gap at the lower left plank splice (term of art), was on the order of .010 wide and i wasn’t sure if the CA/Acrylic fill job on the top surface had aggravated this. In any event, most of the gap was filled with a piece of .010 sheet styrene, glued in place with Zap a Gap. The gaps near the trailing edge flaps were filled with the CA/Acrylic resin mix and Mr Dissolved putty for the places where the CA composite would not flow in…
Once the heavy sanding was done, i went back one more time with Mr Surfacer 1000 in order to fill micro pits/ air bubbles, etc.
For comparison purposes, here’s what the right side looks like before all the heavy lifting…
The gap at the lower right plank splice is mercifully less…. more like .005 wide.
So this is where matters stand. Mr Surfacer needs time to dry, so the model goes back on the shelf while i go out on another flying adventure.
Hope these hints and tips are useful. It’s important to have the right tools but so far this job hasn’t been too bad.
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Looking good, always exciting to se your filling techniques in action.
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One small update…
Before departing i got almost all of the lower wing plank joint finalized on the right side. The right side gap was about half the width of the gap on the left. i did not do the foil and CA/Resin composite trick on the right wing; i’m not sure if that filler action on the left wing pushed it further outboard or not.
At any rate, so far i’ve just slopped Mr Surfacer 1000 on the upper right wing root…
More to come….
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Excellent! Great work I’m learning a few things from your techniques, keep it coming š
George
AKL NZOkay the construction and cleanup work on the DC-8 wings is done.
The upper wing root joint required 2 iterations of Mr Surfacer 1000 and a little bit of mr dissolved putty but the cleanup was easy.
The panel line discontinuities were taken care of as well. I need to restore some cargo hold detail in a couple places but primer should come soon after i commit to gluing on the vertical fin.
-d-
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Latest update on the Ocho…
There are still gaps present on the wing leading edges, mostly between the inboard engine pylons and the fuselage. This is sort of the inevitable by product of gluing in the lower wing center piece first, then sticking the upper wing planks onto them.
Outboard of the #2 and #3 engines, the leading edges look a lot better, more some areas of pinholes and pitting, rather than gaping joints.
So, that’s the latest.
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