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Does anyone have experience of painting or know best color match for the Northwest Bowling Shoe off-white, Grey and Red?
Pro modeller, avgeek, semi-retired but can't stop modelling. Nothing below 1/100, generally 1/50 large scale airliners, GRP, resin, expanded foam. Mainly commercial work but build for my own collection or collectors of desktop models.
Live on the west coast of Wales. Frequently use airlinercafe for reference. There's a lot of knowledge out there.As far as I know it’s white, not off white. Northwest painted the one that’s on display in DC at NASM, and it’s white.
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Thanks for that Jennings. Hard to tell from photographs. Any ideas on the red and grey? I don’t know if it’s the same red as on the old Northwest Orient red tail scheme.
Pro modeller, avgeek, semi-retired but can't stop modelling. Nothing below 1/100, generally 1/50 large scale airliners, GRP, resin, expanded foam. Mainly commercial work but build for my own collection or collectors of desktop models.
Live on the west coast of Wales. Frequently use airlinercafe for reference. There's a lot of knowledge out there.I never had any actual paint shop documents for that scheme, but examination of photos and viewing the real thing, I don’t think there’s much, if any difference in the red from the old scheme. The grey looks different in different light. There are a zillion different greys available in model paints. Just pick one that looks close in a photo you like and you’re golden (or grey..).
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About 15 years or so back somebody told me the Testors gray enamel in the square bottle (that generic medium/dark gloss gray – is it 1138?) was a great match for the gray. The recommended red was either Guards Red or Italian Red from the Model Master line. I’m operating on memory here, but I’m pretty sure that’s what was recommended to me, and that those recommendations were based on comparing different paint samples against a real aircraft.
Jodie Peeler
"In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." - Sayre's Law
NX28388 :
About 15 years or so back somebody told me the Testors gray enamel in the square bottle (that generic medium/dark gloss gray – is it 1138?) was a great match for the gray. The recommended red was either Guards Red or Italian Red from the Model Master line. I’m operating on memory here, but I’m pretty sure that’s what was recommended to me, and that those recommendations were based on comparing different paint samples against a real aircraft.Jodie Peeler
I’d go guards red over Italian, the latter has a more orange color to it that’s too bright for the NW bowling shoe.
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LH707 :
I’d go guards red over Italian, the latter has a more orange color to it that’s too bright for the NW bowling shoe.The more I think about it, the more I think it was Guards Red. Thanks for prodding my memory. It’s been more than 15 years since I last built anything in those NW colors, and I’m surprised I could remember as much as I did.
Jodie Peeler
"In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." - Sayre's Law
Thanks guys for all your comments and kind assistance.
Pro modeller, avgeek, semi-retired but can't stop modelling. Nothing below 1/100, generally 1/50 large scale airliners, GRP, resin, expanded foam. Mainly commercial work but build for my own collection or collectors of desktop models.
Live on the west coast of Wales. Frequently use airlinercafe for reference. There's a lot of knowledge out there.Rather than creating a new post I thought I’d ask this question within this, going-on 10yo thread.
I just want to confirm that the gray on the bowling shoe scheme is the same for the fuselage and wings/stabs – both upper and lower?
I can’t find a definitive reference and the photos I’ve seen, of the underside in particular, look different but I expect it’s just the light that makes the wings look a different shade from the fuselage.
TIA
So many kits, so little time …
Not on any Northwest aircraft to my knowledge and having flown everything a lot.
The Bowling Shoe gray was only on the fuselage. The wings and stabilizers upper and lower are standard manufacturer DC9, M80, 727, 757, A320, DC10, 741 / 742 / 744 paints and the Boeing / MDC / DC related bare metal aspects. Or if used like DC10-30, whatever the prior carriers had before going to NWA if not manufacturer standards.
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Thanks for your reply and that answers that particular question.
One of the frustrations I have is that when looking at many photos in the usual reference sites the majority only give side views or views at takeoff/landing where you can’t see the top and the light on the underside is so low so you can’t discern any detail, never mind shades.
The only photo I could find with a top view in good daylight is the following shot from the boneyard:
https://www.planespotters.net/photo/829911/n641nw-northwest-airlines-boeing-747-212b
It seemed to me that the fuselage and wing shade was similar at least but I can now see on looking closer that they’re different and fading likely plays a part.
The wing gray has more blue in it so I’ll find a shade to match it from the 50 or so in my growing paint collection but a reference would be good.
I have the Draw Decal set but their sets don’t provide top/bottom views or related paint references other than the leading edge metal finish.
I see a lot of posts in the Cafe on color schemes and it would be great if there was a database for this (ie a Wikipedia of airline liveries) that would save a lot of time. I’ll keep dreaming.
So many kits, so little time …
Seems like many years ago, when I had the opportunity to visit one of the maintenance facilities here in Mobile, I checked out a Northwest DC-9, and the gray looked close to FS 36270 Neutral Gray.
Gene
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Thanks Gene.
That’s exactly what I plan to use. I’ve got AK Real Color medium gray, FS36270.
Don’t suppose you know what shade / FS no is used on the wings?
Tom.
So many kits, so little time …
Indeed it is a challenge! This 747 bird has Boeing Gray on wings (see Threads for options to buy) with leading edge bare metal and the traditional mid spar box Boeing paint that is tricky (I use mix of Testors Aluminum and a bit of white to allow for masking over it without ruining the texture). The 747-100s I decal the lines at the front of the wings that are parallel to the fuselage) — I believe there to offset / protect against lightening strikes.
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Thanks DullesFlyer.
I have MRP’s “Boeing Grey 707” which I’ve been using for the mid spar box/WBF until now based on other posts on here. I assumed the gray on the wings was a darker shade however, although one Cafe member said they used Boeing Gray for both the wings and the WBF so I’ve seen different views on this, hence my confusion.
Photos I’ve seen definitely show the WBF a slightly lighter shade than the wings so I’ll probably just make an executive decision and choose shades to reflect that.
I realize this post will inspire yawns from those who’ve been around this rodeo a hundred times before but it’s tricky for this still-novice airliner modeller to find a definitive view on such a trivial detail.
(I won’t dare invoke the subject of coroguard, but I’m pretty comfortable with that one anyway!)
Onwards and upwards. ✈️
So many kits, so little time …
That boneyard picture looks like a darker gray for the bowling shoe, Boeing gray wings, and coroguard inspars. Coroguard looks different in different light conditions, so you should have plenty of latitude with that. I usually mix about 50:50 aircraft gray and aluminum.
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Correction to my last post – WBF on the bowling shoe livery is white like the rest of the belly. I was confusing input from different sources instead of checking actual photos.
So many kits, so little time …
That boneyard picture looks like a darker gray for the bowling shoe, Boeing gray wings, and coroguard inspars. Coroguard looks different in different light conditions, so you should have plenty of latitude with that. I usually mix about 50:50 aircraft gray and aluminum.
Just when I thought I had this part nailed.
I sprayed some of my AK Medium Grey (FS36270) onto plastic card (on top of white primer) next to a patch of AK Dark Grey (FS36176). See first photo above.
The dark grey on the left is more neutral (and more like the photos of the actual aircraft) whereas the medium grey is obviously more brown.
Not sure if this is due to different manufacturers’ implementation of FS colors but this FS36270 doesn’t look right even though the 2nd photo is a sample from the AK website of their medium grey and looks a great match for the actual color on the aircraft.
(I realize my uploaded photo will not reflect the actual shade on the card exactly but for relative comparison it’s useful).
I like to refer to paint references when possible but I’m inclined to go with what looks closer to the actual color. I’ll experiment some more before deciding however.
Yip, Boeing grey for the wings.
Re coroguard, I plan to do what you’ve suggested and not overly concerned about the exact shade. That’s the great thing about coroguard 😊
If I don’t do this justice in the end, it’s back to building military aircraft.
Thanks.
So many kits, so little time …
Yeah, I’d mix that color on the left with some aluminum for your coroguard and call it good, maybe add some white if it looks dark: https://airlinercafe.com/aviation-articles/the-true-color-of-coroguard-76412/
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My reference for the Neutral Gray was model Master 36270. Doing a Google search, I see that several different manufacturers call 36270 by different names, and may vary just a little in color.
Gene
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Yes Gene and I tend to ignore the names for that reason and just refer to the FS number, where there is one.
One of the problems I have being in the UK is that we don’t generally have access to Model Master, Testors and other paints that you have in the U.S.
However, the AK and Vallejo ranges available here are pretty comprehensive and I can usually rely on their FS numbers but in the case of AK FS36270, at least, it doesn’t spray anything like the sample in the 2nd image I posted above – which looks a perfect match.
One of the many variables and frustrations I have with this hobby alas.
Tom.
So many kits, so little time …
That boneyard picture looks like a darker gray for the bowling shoe, Boeing gray wings, and coroguard inspars. Coroguard looks different in different light conditions, so you should have plenty of latitude with that. I usually mix about 50:50 aircraft gray and aluminum.
Just when I thought I had this part nailed.
I sprayed some of my AK Medium Grey (FS36270) onto plastic card (on top of white primer) next to a patch of AK Dark Grey (FS36176). See first photo above.
The dark grey on the left is more neutral (and more like the photos of the actual aircraft) whereas the medium grey is obviously more brown.
Not sure if this is due to different manufacturers’ implementation of FS colors but this FS36270 doesn’t look right even though the 2nd photo is a sample from the AK website of their medium grey and looks a great match for the actual color on the aircraft.
(I realize my uploaded photo will not reflect the actual shade on the card exactly but for relative comparison it’s useful).
I like to refer to paint references when possible but I’m inclined to go with what looks closer to the actual color. I’ll experiment some more before deciding however.
Yip, Boeing grey for the wings.
Re coroguard, I plan to do what you’ve suggested and not overly concerned about the exact shade. That’s the great thing about coroguard 😊
If I don’t do this justice in the end, it’s back to building military aircraft.
Thanks.
From my 25+ year-old memories of flying on Northwest, that chip to the right is almost exactly what I remember the dark gray being on the fuselage. Be that as it may, you would see variations as the paint aged, so you have kind of a window. But the gray was not on the brown end of things; even as it weathered and lightened, it still remained neutral. Stay within the realm of that chip and you’ll be fine.
As for Corogard, don’t overthink it. I don’t believe any airplane I’ve flown on that had it ever looked the same. How its color looked varied with time of day, time of year, lighting, how old the aircraft was, how much sleep I’d had the night before, etc., etc. Mix something up within the realm of what your references tell you, and you’ll be fine. Boeing Gray can be much the same, and anymore I just eyeball it.
BTW, don’t let this paint conundrum turn you off from airliner modeling. I remember there being so much that confused me when I got back into it about 1994 or so, and I didn’t have the Internet to guide me. There’s still a Welsh 757 on a forgotten shelf back home that I built, and it has the baggage door decals on the wrong side of the aircraft.
Build this the way it looks best to you, don’t get too hung up on things, and let yourself have fun with it. Then get another one and have fun with it. Don’t overthink this. It’s a hobby, remember. 🙂
Jodie Peeler
"In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." - Sayre's Law
That’s great advice Jodie, thanks.
The grays I’m less worried about for exactly the reasons you stated, but I did want to get the red as close as possible to the photos as it’s a really classy shade and other modellers on here have clearly nailed it.
My early attempts at airliners weren’t great mostly because I hadn’t developed my airbrush technique and didn’t fully appreciate the need for a perfect smooth surface at each stage in the process.
I spent the last couple years doing military aircraft as they’re much more forgiving, in terms of the finish at least, but having improved my skills somewhat I thought I’d return to airliners and a local competition (with a commercial theme) gave me the impetus.
This first build won’t be perfect but should be better than previous ones and I’ll just be happy to improve to the point where the finish is decent with no major flaws or inaccuracies.
I have a small but decent stash of airliner kits which I binge-purchased from EvilBay during the dying days of lockdown and aim to build most of them barring disasters. That now includes an AA 707 which I bought from Kurt, whom I finally met at the Telford show a few weeks ago.
Anyway, thanks for your encouragement and, at the risk of ridicule, I’ll post a few photos over the coming weeks 😊
So many kits, so little time …
Tom, we’re all in that same boat of learning as we go. Looking at some of my earlier builds, I’m definitely seeing a progression in skills as I’ve gone. My airbrush technique is by no means the best, as you say we learn as we go. I’ve likewise learned the importance of proper surface prep, that’s been what’s kept me off the podium of my local IPMS the last couple times. My current project has a much stronger focus on getting the pre-build mostly right before painting so that the outcome is better. There are still small things that I chose to overlook (e.g. faded underside panel lines for some inspection hatches from sanding), you always have to draw the line somewhere. As long as you’re having fun, keep at it. Done is better than perfect.
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On the occasions I exhibit anything anymore, people say to me, “Wow! That looks great! I’d love to do that.” What they don’t see are all the projects that got me to this point, all the things that I screwed something up on, all the things where a method turned out half-baked, etc. Those projects would be failures only if I had failed to learn something from them. You have to do a project the best way you know how, in that moment, and get it done. Then you look at it, figure out what worked and where you need to improve, and move on to the next one using the lessons you learned from that one.
No one – not even people whose names are renowned in the hobby for decades, whose names we’d all recognize – has ever built a perfect model. We just have to do the best we can, with what we have, in the moment we’re in, and take something from that project into the next one. It’s also handy to remember that nobody is going to issue you a grade on this, and nobody’s fate hangs in the balance. We do these things because they’re supposed to be fun and there’s nothing at stake. Relax with it, have a good time, and I imagine the more you let yourself enjoy the process as you work on it, the better the finished model. Have fun!
Jodie Peeler
"In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." - Sayre's Law
Merlin / Jodie,
that’s all great advice, thanks.
“We do these things because they’re supposed to be fun..” – yes, I sometimes forget that when I get caught up in the futile quest for perfection 😊
In order to get this thing done, I’ll accept some compromises and apply the lessons learned to my next build.
I’ll create a new thread and post photos, along with a description of my process to get some feedback.
Your comments have given me a much needed boost to change gear.
Cheers,
Tom.
So many kits, so little time …
If you have access to Xtracolor paints the Grey is X341 and the Red is X340.
On a side note, the heavy weathering of the Bowling Shoe (as well as United Battleship) schemes allow for almost any shade of lighter grey or red.
Cheers,
Christian
Christian Klepp
Lightyears Landscape Photography
Where Geoscience Meets Art
www.christianklepp.comWhat kind of paint is creative colors? Is it water based paint? I’ve never heard of this brand before and would like to know more.
Thank you,
Jaime Diaz
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Jaime,
I had the same questions myself! I followed the link, and found out I don’t read or speak Polish well enough, to answer our questions! I google translated far enough to learn that hobby brand (seller) has developed their own line of paint. They are thinner based acrylic (don’t use water to thin) and they have their own thinner. They also said they are thinned and airbrush ready, and only need the thinner for aged and exposed paint. I searched the website, could not find the thinner. That said, I ordered the NW colors, and SWA colors they have, and will put to the smell test to find the proper thinner!
edited to add: I hope they do more airline colors,as Hannats seems impossible to get. They have a few but not many other airline colors.
I don’t always say “Proceed as requested”
But when I do, it is because I have no clue what you just said.
Posts: 38Location: Salt Lake CityOccupation: Retired. Twice: Civilian HR manager and US Army officerIf it means anything, my Liveries Unlimited NW RJ85 decals from the last century say the gray was approximately FS16314.
Robert V. Leonard
Jaime..I’m pretty sure Mr. Hobby Levelling Thinner would do the trick. I use it for all different paint types with no problems. I have some older, dried-out bottles of the Creative paint. Will try to revive them and let you know the result.
As for Hannants’ Xtracolor range, I believe they’ve halted any expansion or further production. What’s on hand in stock will probably be the only items available going forward. Since David’s passing, the “new order” seemingly hasn’t been as dedicated to our side of the hobby when it comes to specialties.
Alan Aronoff
Where there's a will, there's a relative.Just received my batch of Creative Colors that I ordered. They smell the same as Mr. Hobby Leveling Thinner, so I would thing that would be the best thinner. Looking forward to using these paints.
I don’t always say “Proceed as requested”
But when I do, it is because I have no clue what you just said.
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