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Hello-I am back at working on a few 707s. Can this kit be used for 707-320B as is or does it need any corrections. I am currently assembling a 1/144 Roden 720B. Thanks-John.
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Yes, as boxed, Minicraft #14624 VC-137 “Freedom One” can be used to model a 707-320B/C.
Kind regards,
DutchYep. The “Freedom One” boxing has the -320B plastic therein. The actual 58-6971 (along with siblings 58-6970 and the late 58-6972) is a VC-137B, which was a -120B airframe and, obviously, somewhat different.
Jodie Peeler
(VC-137B enthusiast)
"In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." - Sayre's Law
Yep. The “Freedom One” boxing has the -320B plastic therein. The actual 58-6971 (along with siblings 58-6970 and the late 58-6972) is a VC-137B, which was a -120B airframe and, obviously, somewhat different.
Jodie Peeler
(VC-137B enthusiast)Jodie,
Good to hear from you! You are absolutely correct that the plastic in the box is the C-137C version (707-320B); hence not correct for the C-137B decals provided (707-120B). The 707/720 is one of the least understood aircraft by kit manufacturers. To Al Trendle’s credit, Minicraft did release both the early -320 version wing with curved inner flaps and straight wing tips and the later -320B/C version wing with straight elephant ear flaps and extended wingtips. I still think that the best 707-320B/C is the Welsh vacuform kit.
Kind regards,
DutchThanks! I just ordered it and now need to find either American Airlines or TWA decals.-John
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I just noticed something in some pictures, is the difference between the 707-320B and 707-320C the C has no ventral fin?
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Operating from memory: The first 707-320Bs had the ventral fin. The -320C incorporated some improvements that addressed the issues that required the fin, and -320Bs built after 1963 to the -320B Advanced spec didn’t have the fin. Some of the early -320Bs were refitted with the Advanced improvements and thus could lose the fin. (62-6000 comes to mind – it was delivered with the fin but later got the Advanced modifications and lost the fin.)
Of course, the other really big difference is that the -320C had that big ol’ cargo door on the port side forward. Some were pure freighters and others were combis. On the passenger-capable aircraft look for a pair of oddly-spaced windows on the forward fuselage, which will tip you off as to the door’s location. There will also usually be an additional exit aft of the emergency exits (the “hat rack” door, I’ve seen it called).
The Boeing 707 Guide on this very website can walk you through all this, and so many other interesting factoids about the wonderful 707.
The picture on the “Freedom One” boxing shows the actual 58-6971 with the appropriate shorter ventral fin of the -120B…and, of course, inside the box is a -320B. I keep hoping for the definitive -120B kit someday, an interesting and widely-used but overlooked airplane.
Jodie Peeler
"In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." - Sayre's Law
Argh and LOL…….
Great question and answers John, Dutch, and Jodie,
707’s, KC-135’s, and USAF VC aircraft…..LOTS of differences subtle and not so subtle.
I thought that Revell was the only manufacturer to mix and match correct/incorrect 737/KC-135 kits and decals. Looks like Minicraft managed it too with the VC-137B decals and the 707-320B plastic.
I’ll call it an “old friend” that I’ve visited on my two trips to the Museum of Aviation in Robins Georgia. It’s an EC-135N 61-0327 that was used by General Norman Schwarzkopf during Desert Storm. I’ll likely be back and check on the plane this June. It wasn’t “looking so great” on my last visit in 2019. With a KC-135 kit, the proper serial #, and some of the Freedom One decals I bet one could make a unique model.
Ken
Giving credit where credit is due…..Here’s the Flickr info on the photo.
<button class=”follow “>Follow</button><h1 id=”yui_3_16_0_1_1738375540516_2088″ class=” meta-field photo-title “>Boeing EC-135N Stratotanker ‘10327’</h1>
<input class=”meta-field edit-meta-field false-textarea false-edit-photo-title” tabindex=”-1″ type=”text” aria-hidden=”true” />
This historic aircraft was originally delivered to the USAF in November 1961 as a C-135A and was assigned to the 1611th Air Transport (Heavy) Wing at McGuire AFB, New Jersey. In August 1966 it was transferred to the Eastern Test Range, at Patrick AFB, Florida and converted to an EC-135N for test purposes. In December 1975 it was moved to the 4950th Test Wing at Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio. In June 1987 it was transferred to the 19th Air Refueling Wing here at Robins AFB, Georgia where it served as an airborne command post. In the 1990s it was transferred to the Headquarters Central Command (CENTCOM) at MacDill AFB FL. During Desert Storm it served as General Norman Schwarzkopf’s aircraft, ferrying him to and from the Middle East. It remained at MacDill AFB serving other CENTCOM Commanders until February 2003 when it was retired to the Museum for display.Full serial 61-0327.c/n 18234.
On display at the Warner Robins Museum of Aviation.
Georgia, USA.
18-4-2013
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Thanks for clearing that up, I found dozens of pictures of 707-323B, mainly American Airlines without the ventral fin. I was going to do a Pan Am for my Roden 720B but saw some nice pictures of an American Airlines 720-023B with a nice lightning bolt. I have to replace the Roden decals as they do not have the aluminum trim around the windows.
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Thanks for clearing that up, I found dozens of pictures of 707-323B, mainly American Airlines without the ventral fin. I was going to do a Pan Am for my Roden 720B but saw some nice pictures of an American Airlines 720-023B with a nice lightning bolt. I have to replace the Roden decals as they do not have the aluminum trim around the windows.
Another little-known fact about the 707s is that all American 707-123B & -323B/C were delivered (or converted from -120/320s) with turbo-compressor hoods on engine struts #2 & #3 only, not engine #4 as on almost all other customer ordered 707s. This had to do with the AC unit using a separate air compressor located ahead of the main wheel well. So having said that, the Minicraft kit has turbo hoods on engine struts #2, 3, 4. That may guide your decal choices. Or you could trim off the turbo hood from engine strut #4 to depict an American Airlines machine (or any numerous follow-on users). Your choice.
Kind regards,
DutchThanks Dutch, I heard somewhere where they left the hood on but no compressor in it? I don’t remember where I heard it or what livery it was.
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I think that’s true of some of the straight-pipe 720s: they shared the same parts as the 707-120 but didn’t need the same air flow, so they kept the housing and pylon but didn’t install the TC.
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I just noticed the decals Minicraft gives you for Freedom One, they are 707-153 serial numbers and cannot be used on this kit “as built.” Wrong wing as 58-6971 and 58-6972 were the last 2 of the first three 707-153s? I think, which had the 707-120 wing. They became 707-153Bs when they changed engines to the turbofan.
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I just noticed the decals Minicraft gives you for Freedom One, they are 707-153 serial numbers and cannot be used on this kit “as built.” Wrong wing as 58-6971 and 58-6972 were the last 2 of the first three 707-153s? I think, which had the 707-120 wing. They became 707-153Bs when they changed engines to the turbofan.
Indeed the wrong wing and wrong fuselage for SAM 970, 971 or 972. The VC-137Bs were based on the 707-120 airframe. For a correct VC-137B you’d have to convert a Roden 720B or use the Roden wings/engines/stabilizers with a Revell 707 fuselage. The -120Bs got the 720 wing glove during the conversion. Kurt Lehmann’s 707-120B kit would be the best possible option (and I have one stashed away to build Queenie someday soon), but I know resin kits aren’t everybody’s cup of tea.
The 707-320B plastic in the “Freedom One” kit would be correct for 62-6000 and 72-7000, plus the two ex-commercial “supertubes” that joined the fleet later (85-6973 and -6974).
Jodie Peeler
"In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." - Sayre's Law
Thank you for that information, I never realized they got the wing glove and engines. I thought the first 3 just got turbofans to become 707-153Bs. My ultimate goal was to build Queenie with the original turbojet engines in the “arctic red” nose, wings, and tail with MATS decals, which most likely do not exist. Was the original color dayglo orange or arctic red or both? I have decided to look for 72-7000 Air Force One decals for the Minicraft “Freedom One” kit.
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This image definitely shows orange. Is the man on LBJs right John Glenn?
Yes, that’s John Glenn in the photo. Note there was a change from the delivery scheme (which was pretty much the standard MATS passenger transport livery, but with a few changes, including the day-glo flashes) to incorporate some changes Kennedy requested, which changed the titles to “United States of America” over the windows and removing the Air Force and MATS markings on the fuselage and tail. When the VC-137C was in work Raymond Loewy was brought in to help design what became the modern Air Force One livery, with the two shades of blue and the elegant lettering.
When the VC-137As were modified to VC-137B standard, they received the Loewy scheme of the VC-137C, but it had day-glo flashes on the forward fuselage and the chevron on the tail’s forward and bottom edging was day-glo instead of the blue of the VC-137C. There’s a film somebody took at Love Field on Nov. 22, 1963 and you see Queenie (with LBJ aboard) landing and taxiing in just before SAM 26000 comes in, and on this film you can clearly see the day-glo trim. It’s rather amazing. It’s a truly hideous variant of the livery and I so completely want to build a VC-137B in that color scheme.
The day-glo was later removed and the VC-137Bs operated in the full Loewy scheme for the rest of the ’60s, and Queenie carried the Presidential seal at one point, since she was the back-up to SAM 26000. In some footage it’s hard to tell if you’re looking at SAM 970 or SAM 26000 if you can’t see the other visual cues between the two types. Later, of course, came various other liveries, and the longest-lived seems to be the one the aircraft currently wears at the Museum of Flight.
At one point in the ’80s SAM 974 wore a very interesting paint scheme with a blue belly and black/gold trim. Here’s a picture. I’ve had thoughts for a long time of building the Entex/Doyusha kit in those colors. Certainly not something you see every day!
Jodie Peeler
"In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." - Sayre's Law
Thanks Jodi for that unique look at a “one of” scheme and anti IR missile system. Those were on all four engine pylons facing rear? Definitely something you’d need as unique scheme and options not often seen on a “passenger plane”!
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“At one point in the ’80s SAM 974 wore a very interesting paint scheme with a blue belly and black/gold trim. Here’s a picture. I’ve had thoughts for a long time of building the Entex/Doyusha kit in those colors. Certainly not something you see every day!”
What a coincidence – I JUST saw a framed photo of 974 in an FBO last week on a trip:
I don’t recall ever having seen this variation on a SAM bird. Though I cut most of the inscription out of the image frame, it was signed “Crew of AFII” Interestingly, both 973 and 974 came to be in U.S. service because they had been seized from drug smugglers…
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!"
“My ultimate goal was to build Queenie with the original turbojet engines in the “arctic red” nose, wings, and tail with MATS decals, which most likely do not exist.”
Caracal Decals sheet CD-144004 C-135 Family General Purpose Markings has full MATS markings, along with several others.
Gene
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Thanks Jodi for that unique look at a “one of” scheme and anti IR missile system. Those were on all four engine pylons facing rear? Definitely something you’d need as unique scheme and options not often seen on a “passenger plane”!
IIRC, it was called “Have Siren.” The fairings are still on the four VC-137s on display.
SAM 973 and 974 are the “overlooked” VC-137s and I don’t think a lot of folks were aware of them, but they were interesting aircraft. Certainly the “how they got there” is worth a story in itself!
Jodie Peeler
"In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." - Sayre's Law
I’ve likewise got an AA 707-100B in the stash to make a model of SAM 970, now I’ll have to go check all the historical schemes and pick one out. I think I’ve got some spare decals for that build, I’ll have to check the stash.
@nx28388 did you ever do your 1:72 VC-137B? I’m curious to see how that turned out. I think Kurt’s got an OOB kit ready for that, might save the pain of doing an AMC -135 conversion.
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@nx28388 did you ever do your 1:72 VC-137B? I’m curious to see how that turned out. I think Kurt’s got an OOB kit ready for that, might save the pain of doing an AMC -135 conversion.
Much as I would love a 1:72 Queenie, the 1:144 version will be a lot easier to display. I have Kurt’s very lovely 707-120B next to the bench, and I also have the Xtracolor paint for the Loewy scheme. I’m planning to build the aircraft in the mid/late ’60s configuration with the full AF1 markings. I think it’s more a case of wanting to do it for so long, and not wanting to mess it up, that’s keeping me from starting on the project.
Jodie Peeler
"In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." - Sayre's Law
FWIW I think your build would be a damn good one, not sure how you’d manage to mess it up. Depending on timing, would you want to do a group build?
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FYI, the Finescale Modeler book “Modeling Aircraft” has a great article on building Queenie in 1/72 scale. The article also contains side view drawings, with notes, of all of the color schemes applied to the VC-137 fleet.
Gene
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FYI, the Finescale Modeler book “Modeling Aircraft” has a great article on building Queenie in 1/72 scale. The article also contains side view drawings, with notes, of all of the color schemes applied to the VC-137 fleet.
The article itself is very good and I provided some bits of information to Paul Boyer throughout his project. The profiles, unfortunately, have some small-to-moderate accuracy issues. I did the profiles (at Paul’s request) but after I submitted the initial set, I was advised of some accuracy issues and sent a revised set. Paul was going to see to it that the revised versions were used, but there was a mix-up and the original set of profiles was used in the book. They are okay as a general idea of what the VC-137s looked like throughout their careers, but if you use those profiles as a reference, I strongly recommend cross-checking them against photographic evidence of the aircraft you want to build at the time you want to build it.
Jodie Peeler
"In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." - Sayre's Law
FWIW I think your build would be a damn good one, not sure how you’d manage to mess it up. Depending on timing, would you want to do a group build?
Thanks very much for the (needed) vote of confidence. I just get precious sometimes about the individual projects that mean so much to me, and I just need to get myself off top dead center about them.
If we could work out the timing, I might would be open to a group build, sure.
Jodie Peeler
"In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." - Sayre's Law
Ha ha I’m the same way with some of these. My backlog is somewhat flexible, I could either pull it up to be my next one (starting in a few months) or the next one after that, so maybe 2026ish?
I’ll have to try and track down a copy of that book as well.
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Out of curiosity, can someone comment on the usefulness of the Minicraft VC-137 decals? They depict the 300 series 26000 and 27000 aircraft. Other than shortening the cheatlines and maybe moving the text and coming up with “970” lettering (maybe flip the 6 upside down and steal the 7 from the other one…?), are they a good color match, window size, etc.?
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From what I can remember of the original Air Force One kit, the titles were pretty good (they’re usually pretty awful on most sheets) and the colors were okay-ish (though, granted, they’re very seldom seen in the right colors; they are tricky colors, especially the darker blue). The Presidential seal on the sheet was pretty bad and I recall the flag for the tail was pretty bad, too (may have even had 48 stars; I forget).
For my model of SAM 970 I’m going to paint the blue sections with Xtracolour BAC5070 and BAC5071, likely with the help of some masks I’ll cut on our Silhouette machine. I’ll likely laser-print the Presidential seal and the serials for the tail. If the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA lettering from the VC-137C or C-32A kits scale out well, I’ll probably use one of those sheets for that. That will leave the thin gold stripe below the cheatline as the only thing I’ll have to sort out.
Jodie Peeler
"In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." - Sayre's Law
Ok, I’ll have to give the sheet another glance before proceeding. I certainly don’t have those paints, might have to go find them somewhere.
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It’s Xtracolour 164 (dark blue) and 165 (light blue). Hannants has both in stock, but you’d have to figure out how to get these tiny tins of paint shipped from there to you. I got mine from Russell Brown many, many years ago, but he’s out of them, according to his website.
Jodie Peeler
"In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." - Sayre's Law
As for decals, Microscale sheet 44-12 has decals for SAM 26000, probably intended for the Air fix 707 kit.
Gene
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I think it was indeed designed for the Airfix 707, which was (IIRC) the only Intercontinental 707 available in 1:144 for a long time, but of course needs wing modification and different engines for an accurate VC-137C. Given the era that sheet hails from, it actually looks pretty good. It’s a very definite improvement over the decal in the “Air Force One” issue of the Airfix kit, which was…just bad. Wrong style for the lettering, the serial was “25000,” the presidential seals were bad, the cheatline color was so off…oh, so many issues.
Jodie Peeler
"In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." - Sayre's Law
Thanks for the help and information. One more question, when I was looking for schemes for this kit one that I found but was not sure of was a British Airways 707-336C cargo livery. What is a 707-336C? Is that their version of a 707-320C? Thanks again. John
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Basically, yes. Boeing used unique codes for the first customer of an aircraft. In the olden days, they used to do a bunch of customizations to gain customers. Some examples I can think of were making the switches backward on the TWA 707s because that’s what the old Connie crews were used to, or the options to do steam gauges versus mechanical tapes for the engine gauges. They reduced the number of customizations after they had delivery delays on the 747-400, due in part because they didn’t have the “no smoking” placards in Lufthansa gray. There’s a good section in the book “Legends and Legacy” about all of that.
The customizations became a nuisance in the aftermarket due to lack of standardization, which is a further reason they got reduced.
More on the codes here:
<h2 class=”LnpumSThxEWMIsDdAT17 CXMyPcQ6nDv47DKFeywM”>List of Boeing customer codes – Wikipedia</h2>
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I found a set of decals for this kit. It is a Pan Am707-321B, N404PA, Clipper Seven Seas. I also found pictures of it serving in USAF in an odd configuration. I may buy another kit and try to build it in it’s USAF configuration.
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