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      tomcat72


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      Post #78368, posted on 06-09-2021 GMT-5 hours    
      Iím raising this topic as the risk of extreme ridicule as Iím aware that many people during the last few decades, including commercial and military pilots, have suffered the same after reporting sightings of apparent UAPs (or UFOs, to use the non-PC terminology).

      Nevertheless, the game seems to have changed. The Pentagon has evidently confirmed that the various sightings by US Navy pilots over the last few years are real and that these objects are a significant risk to national security.

      Now thatís out of the way, the key questions are then
      1 Who owns them?
      2 What technology do they use?
      3 What are their intentions?

      Whatever the answers to the above, this is a jaw-dropping change in position however, despite this acknowledgment, the mainstream media and the world at large are still relatively oblivious to the implications of this. Ask anyone in the street.

      Iíd seen all the Bob Lazar stuff over the years and it was fascinating however the 2020 documentary ďThe PhenomenonĒ was a game-changer for me as it wasnít just what was being said but who was saying it that spoke volumes.

      Whether itís ET buzzing US naval ships just for fun or, alternately, some world power that has made a technological leap of 100-1000 years, in the words of one commentator, this revelation is simply astonishing and probably the biggest news this century so far.

      Either scenario seems incredibly unlikely and yet one of them must logically be true.

      Whether the Pentagonís report to Congress (due on June 25, I believe) will shed any new light, or at least the content shared with the public, remains to be seen but Iím highly skeptical.

      Will this story just fizzle out as it usually does or will this UFO issue have finally turned a corner and the world view on UAPs/ UFOs be in a new place?

      Iíd love to hear the views of others on this

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      Post #78372, posted on 06-10-2021 GMT-5 hours    
      I've been paying some attention as well. They don't confirm that they know what they are, but also don't 100% deny that it's some new project. I suspect these UFOs are either some hitherto unexplained atmospheric phenomenon or military science projects. Thinking about all the ghost stories and other similar things, there's usually a simple answer that turns out to explain it, Occam's Razor. It's tempting to go with "aliens" as an explanation, the same way people used to say that natural disasters were caused by pissed-off gods before we understood how hurricanes, earthquakes, etc. work. Humans are drawn to "wow" explanations, and "aliens" fits the bill well.

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      tomcat72


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      Post #78373, posted on 06-10-2021 GMT-5 hours    
      One of Carl Saganís most famous quotes was ďextraordinary claims require extraordinary evidenceĒ so, until recently, I would have agreed with you - especially after decades of hazy images and no tangible evidence.

      However, there now is real evidence in the form of visual sightings by Navy pilots as well as shipís sensor data which correlates what those pilots saw. Thereís a ton of YouTube videos on this (we donít see these in the U.K. as theyíre too busy reporting on world-shattering events such as the M&H saga) and I donít think these can be dismissed in the way UFO reports used to be. Here are a select few:

      Radar confirms UFO swarm around Navy warship
      https://youtu.be/dPrYVmYkL5w

      Navy pilots recall ďunsettlingĒ 2004 UAP sighting
      https://youtu.be/ygB4EZ7ggig

      Watch the Pentagon's three declassified UFO videos taken by U.S. Navy pilots
      https://youtu.be/rO_M0hLlJ-Q

      Retired US Navy Chief explains tech witnessed in UFO aircraft sighting
      https://youtu.be/azZ4XAZuVk4

      If you havenít seen ďThe PhenomenonĒ doc, I strongly recommend it. Itís either on Amazon or Netflix and itís not the usual close encounters stuff and abductions etc.

      The only caveat Iíd add to all of the above is, despite all of the eyewitness testimony from military personnel, the public at least still have not seen a single, hi-res image of one of these craft / drones which kinda makes you retain some skepticism. A lot of the images are fuzzy, IR type images and apparently these UFOs prefer to fly at night.

      Whether the military have high-res images that they wonít share is an open question.

      I can understand for that reason alone why people are still highly skeptical however I tend to believe the reports of the navy pilots who saw these craft in daylight- particularly David Fravor.

      Whatever these are, Iíve heard enough to be convinced theyíre real as thereís no known theoretical physics to explain their capabilities, far less a technological explanation.

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      DanaK


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      Post #78379, posted on 06-11-2021 GMT-5 hours    
      I suspect that there will nothing more learned by the public from the upcoming report, other than what was known (or suspected) by the US military, in the Twining Memo of 1947: They're real, and they're not ours.

      -Dana

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      Post #78386, posted on 06-11-2021 GMT-5 hours    
      Iím sure youíre right Dana but I still wait with anticipation to see what spin they try to put on it. Maybe hypersonic weather balloons 😀

      I recently saw one TV commentator saying they could be birdsÖ i.e. birds that can drop from 80,000 ft to 20,000 ft in a few seconds and change direction instantaneously. I donít think theyíre paying attention.

      Iíd be perfectly comfortable it they turned out to be alien as, if they can travel hundreds or thousands of light years to reach us, theyíre so advanced thereís no point in worrying about their intentions or offensive capability. Iíd be much more concerned if they came from the people that brought us Covid, as unlikely as that is.

      Hot off the press - this is the latest (Washington Post) interview with Luis Elizondo who is probably the most key figure driving this discussion for the publicís benefit.

      https://youtu.be/GcH5nuqa-0w

      Elizondo gives the most current, realistic and balanced account of where the UAP conversation lies at present and well worth a watch.

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      Post #78392, posted on 06-12-2021 GMT-5 hours    
      Watched that documentary, basically we have a couple of paths we can go down with the UAPs:

      1. It's some natural phenomenon that we can detect but not yet explain. Not much else to say there unless we get more research done to confirm it or something else.
      2. It's built by some sentient species, which can be broken out into two buckets:
      2a: They're ETs that have figured out some way to cover the vast space and come visit us
      2b: They're terrestrial, of which there are two categories
      2b.i: some civilization that we're not aware of, potentially one from under the oceans (cue Atlantis and Wakanda comments)
      2b.ii: some civilization we are aware of

      Option 1 is a simple but boring option, but a likely one. Maybe the next Einstein-like breakthrough will answer it, and we'll find some wormhole, atmospheric disturbance, or whatever else.

      2a requires an explanation of how they covered the gap in space. My dad used to joke that any inbound species would have seen all the transmissions we've made over time, and turned around after seeing politicians' speeches and concluding there's no intelligent life here

      2b.i I think is more likely than the ETs. We know very little about the oceans, so it's entirely possible for some group to be hanging out there. Maybe some sulfur-based life form near a black smoker, who knows.

      2b.ii I'm starting to think is less likely, given that we've been seeing these for decades, and they would have been highly advanced back in the 1940s. It's always possible that the US government is just lying about it, like they do with so many other things (NSA mass surveillance, F-117, A-12, covert wars, etc.), but that still requires it to have been invented. I tend to think they'd take more pains to hide any UFOs if they really are being built.

      I'll stack most of my chips on option #1, followed by the Atlanteans as the next best option.

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      Post #78393, posted on 06-13-2021 GMT-5 hours    
      Thatís a useful breakdown and hereís my 2 cents worth.

      I donít believe the natural phenomena option as these objects have demonstrated sentient behaviour in evading being tracked, buzzing naval ships and nuclear military installations (and, apparently, even disabling ICBMs on one occasion if you believe that one). David Fravor described how the tic-tac craft flew up to meet his F-18 so some of these objects at least have demonstrated intelligence which kinda rules out your option 1.

      Keeping a completely open mind, both options 2a and 2b are equally fantastic and canít be ruled out. The following clip from the Luis Elizondo WaPo interview is interesting as he talks about the affinity these objects have for water and their Ďtrans mediumí capability.

      https://youtu.be/_TtifTBVk_8

      I really like this guy - he comes across as really intelligent and level-headed and genuinely concerned about national security, which is what has driven him.

      Whether these have an earthly origin or are extraterrestrial, they do seem to appear around oceans and lakes for whatever reason. There was one story about Russians encountering aliens in a deep lake somewhere in Russia and having some kind of tussle with them. Again, it sounds fantastic but every scenario you come up with sounds that way. So, I agree that option 2b.i is on the table. Maybe some super-advanced dolphins 😀

      Again, trying to maintain an open mind, I wouldnít completely rule out option 2b.ii as their interest in military vessels and installations is suspicious. I think your point about the US Govt (some ultra secret dept) not being open is a possibility. One theory I heard was the reason they havenít disclosed secret research for decades, even to sitting presidents, is that they donít trust politicians to keep their mouths - especially as these people are just temporary public servants, just passing through. I can definitely believe that. However, that theory doesnít gel with the buzzing of US military sites - unless the technology was stolen and reverse-engineered by a foreign adversary.

      Again fantastic, but so is every other scenario.

      The testimony of Bob Lazar who worked at Area 51 / S4 is just mind-blowing and, as fantastic as his stories are, he also comes across as highly credible. If not, heís the greatest actor Iíve ever seen. So option 2b.ii is still on the table IMHO. If Lazarís story panned out, that would mean the technology is at least of extraterrestrial origin if not ET in the flesh. Lazar reported element 115 before its existence was confirmed and atoms were produced. Itís extremely unstable but maybe someone has managed to produce it in a stable way and it has some special properties in relation to gravity.

      Once again, fantastic but possibly no more so that the other options.

      Going back to option 2a / ET, thereís so much we donít understand about the cosmos given that 95% of it is made of dark matter which physicists havenít been able to find yet, not to mention dark energy which has also eluded them. There may be some way to travel faster than light (a la warp speed) which could explain alien presence from other star systems or galaxies. Fantastic, but Ö.

      To summarise, option 1 is out for me but options 2a, 2b.i and 2b.ii are on the table, however I wonít attempt to rank them as thereís too little information available to make a reasonable judgment.

      However this eventually pans out, itís at least the biggest story of the century so far and possibly much bigger! 👽