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BruinPrideBand


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Post #65885, posted on 02-03-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Well that's kind of a bummer... I had high hopes as well. I'll probably still build one (even though I have a AA Md-11 on the assembly line) as I really do enjoy plastic models.

XRadar, If you do decide to sell I might just be interested!

Chris

"Sorry Goose... But it's time to buzz the Tower."

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Post #65891, posted on 02-04-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Some progress, and yes damn it, I will make those parts fit. Some more notes. Be sure to drill out the flap hinge and engine locater holes before joining wing halves together. I had to install a partial bulkhead inside of the fuselage to seperate it outwards on the lower half so it correctly mates with the belly plate. And yes, the nose wheel strut broke off shortly after the fuselage halves were joined. Screwy way of mating the wing to fuselage, haven'y really figured it out yet. Be careful to install the wing brace correctly before attaching the belly plate, it does have a front and aft and the plans are of no help what so ever.





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Post #65892, posted on 02-04-2017 GMT-5 hours    
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Stevej :
Quote
Jennings :
They did miss the raised skin belt behind the windows.



Not sure just what that means but I got the same comment on ref to my photos on facebook.



The DC-10 (and the DC-9) cabin windows have a skin doubler plate. The belt where the windows is is raised above the surrounding skin surface by about 1/8". It's enough to cast a shadow in some light. No model manufacturer has ever done it correctly.

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Post #65894, posted on 02-04-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Quote
Jennings :
Quote
Stevej :
Quote
Jennings :
They did miss the raised skin belt behind the windows.



Not sure just what that means but I got the same comment on ref to my photos on facebook.



The DC-10 (and the DC-9) cabin windows have a skin doubler plate. The belt where the windows is is raised above the surrounding skin surface by about 1/8". It's enough to cast a shadow in some light. No model manufacturer has ever done it correctly.



Authentic Airliners did it correctly on both the DC-10 and the MD-11. They were a model manufacturer the last time I looked.

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Post #65897, posted on 02-04-2017 GMT-5 hours    
It can be added very easily by masking and spraying additional layer(s) of paint so there is a little edge visible. Allow your creativity full bent.

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Post #65899, posted on 02-05-2017 GMT-5 hours    
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747-400 :
It can be added very easily by masking and spraying additional layer(s) of paint so there is a little edge visible. Allow your creativity full bent.




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Post #65900, posted on 02-05-2017 GMT-5 hours    
The DC-10 (and the DC-9) cabin windows have a skin doubler plate. The belt where the windows is is raised above the surrounding skin surface by about 1/8". It's enough to cast a shadow in some light. No model manufacturer has ever done it correctly.

Hi guys,

I looked at photos, but I do not get it. Even Dc-10 or Dc-9.
May one of the german guys write me a german message with a translation?
Thank you in advance..

Uwe

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Post #65901, posted on 02-05-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Hallo Uwe, (Germann explanation to follow as asked for by Uwe)
bei der DC-9, DC-10 und MD-11 wurde die Struktur der Zelle im Bereich der Fenster verstärkt.
Dadurch ergibt sich eine sichtbare erhobene Linie, breiter als die Fenster. Zudem gibt es bei der DC10 und MD-11
dort wo die Türen sitzen eine durchgehende Strukturnaht die erhaben ist, sowie oberhalb der Fenster eine weitere.

Wenn Du die Modelle von Kurt hast, kannst Du das sofort sehen, dort sind alle Linien und Panels vorhanden, bei der neuen
EE und MM Plastik MD-11 fehlt das alles offenbar komplett.

Hier kannst Du das perfekt sehen:

https://photos.flightaware.com/photos/retriever/fb23b8d210d48c4bd679f2528b7473795d6f3874

Hoffe, das hilft,
liebe Grüße,

Christian

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Post #65904, posted on 02-05-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Hmmm... If the actual window doubler is approximately 1/8 inch thick: .125"/144 = .00087" in this scale. I think strips of decal would suffice.

-Dana

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Post #65905, posted on 02-05-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Quote
DanaK :
Hmmm... If the actual window doubler is approximately 1/8 inch thick: .125"/144 = .00087" in this scale. I think strips of decal would suffice.



"Approximately" - it's enough to cast a shadow. I don't know for certain exactly how thick it is, but it's quite visible on DC-9s and DC-10/MD-11s. If we're going to scale everything out, then no kit should have any panel lines at all.

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Post #65908, posted on 02-05-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Exactly, meanwhile I prefer kits without panel lines, as I fill them anyway and scribe the lines into the final paint. This procedure let them look much sharper. Kit panel lines are way overdone, out of scale and let the model look unrealistic.

I am currently working on a set of engines using this method.


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Post #65909, posted on 02-05-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Chris, the level of detail and scribed panel lines on these, what I guess are 747-8 engines, are outstanding.
Are you willing to share the technique you are using with us? How do you scribe that level of detail on round surfaces?

I would love to learn from you,

Cheers,
Christian

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Post #65910, posted on 02-05-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Quote
Jennings :
Quote
DanaK :
Hmmm... If the actual window doubler is approximately 1/8 inch thick: .125"/144 = .00087" in this scale. I think strips of decal would suffice.



"Approximately" - it's enough to cast a shadow. I don't know for certain exactly how thick it is, but it's quite visible on DC-9s and DC-10/MD-11s. If we're going to scale everything out, then no kit should have any panel lines at all.





For what it is worth, the area your are referring to is depicted on the model but it is not raised and based on the math above probably shouldn't be.

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Post #65911, posted on 02-05-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Hi Christian,

thank you very much. Now I see. I searched the Cockpit area.
Too stupid.

Cheers
Uwe

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Post #65915, posted on 02-05-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Scale models try to create the appearance of the real thing (or at least that's my take on why they exist). No, the window belt line isn't HUGE, but it is there, and it is noticeable on the real thing. If you don't want to replicate it, more power to you. But it's a design feature of the MD-11 that was (objectively, factually) missed on this and every other kit. As I said, if you follow the logic of "it's not very big so it doesn't need to be there" then about 98% of the external detail we have on models shouldn't be there either. a skin joint that might have a 0.5mm gap would be a line 0.0035 mm wide in 1/44. But we call models without any panel lines "toys" don't we, because that's what they look like.

This argument gets tiresome.

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Post #65916, posted on 02-05-2017 GMT-5 hours    
It's definitely present and I would love to see it there! Depending on the light conditions, it's very noticeable on the real aircraft. It's the tiny details like that, that make a difference in how accurate and how detailed a model is.

Regards,
ahmed |
--o--o-( )-o--o--

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Post #65917, posted on 02-05-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Yes and it's the same with decal windows. Most modelers fill the holes and sand them flush resulting in a smooth surface. The real thing isn't smooth but a recessed pattern and that's another point for not using decal windows in my opinion.

@Christian: PM sent.

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Post #65920, posted on 02-05-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Quote
747-400 :
Yes and it's the same with decal windows. Most modelers fill the holes and sand them flush resulting in a smooth surface. The real thing isn't smooth but a recessed pattern and that's another point for not using decal windows in my opinion.

@Christian: PM sent.



But then you lose the silver window frames.

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Post #65923, posted on 02-05-2017 GMT-5 hours    
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Stevej

But then you lose the silver window frames.



No, I make my own PE parts for the window panels. I cut out the kit plastic with the incorrect window openings, glue the self made PE parts and put clear plastic foil inside behind the window panel. Then I put the decals on and decal soft will allow them to set properly into the recessed area.

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Post #65925, posted on 02-05-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Quote
747-400 :
Quote
Stevej

But then you lose the silver window frames.



No, I make my own PE parts for the window panels. I cut out the kit plastic with the incorrect window openings, glue the self made PE parts and put clear plastic foil inside behind the window panel. Then I put the decals on and decal soft will allow them to set properly into the recessed area.



Well on this one I am going to use your 3D windows and mask off the windshield. PE is one of the things that causes me to lose sleep at night.

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Post #65934, posted on 02-06-2017 GMT-5 hours    
If we had an award for meticulousness, I wager Chris would be somewhere on the podium.

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Post #65937, posted on 02-07-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Hi, I just ordered two kits from Hobbyterra, the MikroMir version. I cannot wait to make a start on them, one as a regular early bird and the other one including the latest PIP. This MD-11 kit is a godsent and really the one I will invest time in. All I hope is that good sales encourage them to pursue in civilian 1/144 subjects.

BMW 850 Ci E31 / Mercedes-Benz 560 SEC W126

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Post #65938, posted on 02-07-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Quote
UpperDeck :
Hi, I just ordered two kits from Hobbyterra, the MikroMir version. I cannot wait to make a start on them, one as a regular early bird and the other one including the latest PIP. This MD-11 kit is a godsent and really the one I will invest time in. All I hope is that good sales encourage them to pursue in civilian 1/144 subjects.



And this is a philosophy I can embrace. Market reaction to the MD-11 is going to drive whether Mikro-Mir will oblige on the civilian subjects we've been wanting for years, and even with what's been discussed in this thread, this kit looks like one it'll be worth the time to build and enjoy. The only thing keeping me from getting one is already having a 1/144 MD-11 upstairs and not really having room for more on the display shelf; otherwise, I'd be all over the P&W release when it emerges.

Much as this kit has been picked apart in this thread, the simple fact remains that Mikro-Mir is putting a reasonably accurate injection-molded 1:144 MD-11 (something that has never existed before!) within reach of many modelers. That in itself is worth appreciating, and I hope it means more of the subjects we've been wanting for years are to come.

Jodie Peeler

In 1924 Wien was Alaska's first airline. In 1980 it still is.

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Post #65940, posted on 02-07-2017 GMT-5 hours    
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LH707 :
If we had an award for meticulousness, I wager Chris would be somewhere on the podium.




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Post #65947, posted on 02-08-2017 GMT-5 hours    
There'll be another source soon for the MM/EE kit.

http://www.26decals.com/epages/62035508.mobile/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62035508/Categories/Latest_News

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Post #65948, posted on 02-08-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Just an update: I built the fuselage in two sections and then joined them, the fit was pretty good, just a litle sanding and some filler. I was careful to flatten each wing half and even tried to "hollow" them out a little near the trailing edge but they still didn't join flat without leaving a gap. I finally used clamps all along the traling edges. The completed fuselage was primed this afternoon.

Some advice needed. I have KLM decals on order from DRAW. Planned to make it PH-KCE but not sure about the early flap hinges and it looks like PW engines that I was going to bash from a Beluga kit, not even sure about that. My inner self says just build out of the box. I have researched hundreds of photos but I know very little about MD-11's. IPMS event 3/25 if all goes well.

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Post #65957, posted on 02-09-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Stevej, thank you for the tips, they will come handy when I make a start on mine.

Last photos I found about PH-KCE date back to Jan 2015 in Mojave while she was being scrapped, it looks like she retained the common non-PIP flap hinge fairings, however with CF6-80C2 engines with the latest pointier exhaust cone spike.

Engines included in the Beluga kit are also CF6-80C2, quite similar to the ones used on the MD-11.

Great news about the 2 6 Decals combo, I hope the decals will be of the silk screen type.

BMW 850 Ci E31 / Mercedes-Benz 560 SEC W126

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Post #65963, posted on 02-09-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Quote
UpperDeck :
Stevej, thank you for the tips, they will come handy when I make a start on mine.

Last photos I found about PH-KCE date back to Jan 2015 in Mojave while she was being scrapped, it looks like she retained the common non-PIP flap hinge fairings, however with CF6-80C2 engines with the latest pointier exhaust cone spike.

Engines included in the Beluga kit are also CF6-80C2, quite similar to the ones used on the MD-11.

Great news about the 2 6 Decals combo, I hope the decals will be of the silk screen type.



Many thanks, riding out a blizzard today so I should get a lot of work done on the model. Have to dig that Beluga out of the stash.

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Post #65968, posted on 02-09-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Hi Steve
Thanks for your build tips, especially as I'm planning a KLM build too.
I know there's a lot of pics on Airliners.net, but I've got a set of relatively close-up pics of a KLM MD11 on stand at Amsterdam in 2013 which just happens to be PH-KCE. Happy to send you copies if you think they might help you - see example below.
Cheers
Tim


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Post #65972, posted on 02-09-2017 GMT-5 hours    
KCE also had the newer intake on #2. I don't know if Mikromir does the new or old intake, but I'd be careful about that. The ones with the old intake were KCA/B/C and I'm not sure about D.

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Post #65974, posted on 02-09-2017 GMT-5 hours    
I'll always regret not flying the KLM MD-11... Especially given all the trips to the Netherlands I make....

Chris

"Sorry Goose... But it's time to buzz the Tower."

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Post #65975, posted on 02-09-2017 GMT-5 hours    
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BruinPrideBand :
I'll always regret not flying the KLM MD-11... Especially given all the trips to the Netherlands I make....

Chris



Same here! Flew many trips on KLM to/from AMS, with orgin and destinations of ORD, BOS, CAI, and JFK. All my travels were on the B747-200/400 and A300. Great service always.

Rodger Cook

Alumni of: Hughes Airwest, Republic Airlines, Evergreen International

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Post #65978, posted on 02-09-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Thanks, I think I have all I need right now. The engines from the Beluga look almost identical to the engines that came with the kit so I decided it's not worth all the work to swap them out. Taking a calculated risk with the wings.I would prefer to paint the fuselage and wings before they are mated, dry fit shows one wing with no noticeable seam and the other wing with a seam showing. I figure I can find a way to eliminate that seam when the time comes.

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Post #65981, posted on 02-09-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Quote
Cabforward :
Quote
BruinPrideBand :
I'll always regret not flying the KLM MD-11... Especially given all the trips to the Netherlands I make....

Chris



Same here! Flew many trips on KLM to/from AMS, with orgin and destinations of ORD, BOS, CAI, and JFK. All my travels were on the B747-200/400 and A300. Great service always.



Since I've had status on OneWorld I've hardly flown a member of any other alliance.. Of course with the complete devaluation of airline elite status that probably won't be an issue anymore.......



More on point... With the DC-10 (Including the MD-11) careful study of photographs of the real thing are vital given how many difference there are between the types--and even within the types.

Chris

"Sorry Goose... But it's time to buzz the Tower."

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Post #65996, posted on 02-10-2017 GMT-5 hours    


Window doubler added, taped off and applied several layers of primer.

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Post #65999, posted on 02-10-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Looking good!!! What did you use for the doubler? It looks spot on.

Chris

"Sorry Goose... But it's time to buzz the Tower."

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Post #66000, posted on 02-10-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Very impressed, Steve. Looking forward to more as you have time!

I have fond memories of the MD-11 from my two brief flights on them. In the air the ride reminded me of a 767 (but with larger cabin), but on landing I hardly felt us touch the runway, smoothest landings I've had on just about any type at all. It was a neat airplane.

Jodie Peeler

In 1924 Wien was Alaska's first airline. In 1980 it still is.

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Post #66004, posted on 02-10-2017 GMT-5 hours    
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NX28388 :
Very impressed, Steve. Looking forward to more as you have time!

I have fond memories of the MD-11 from my two brief flights on them. In the air the ride reminded me of a 767 (but with larger cabin), but on landing I hardly felt us touch the runway, smoothest landings I've had on just about any type at all. It was a neat airplane.

Jodie Peeler



Yours didn't flip?

Steve, that one has the early intake. Unless you want to change it do do KCE, I'd suggest doing KCA/B/C.

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Post #66007, posted on 02-10-2017 GMT-5 hours    
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Cabforward :

Same here! Flew many trips on KLM to/from AMS, with orgin and destinations of ORD, BOS, CAI, and JFK. All my travels were on the B747-200/400 and A300. Great service always.



I presume you meant A330, as A300 have never been in the KLM fleet. MD-11 served BOS and CAI if memory from reading the timetables of the late 90's serves me right. It is said that they are no longer around indeed.


Quote
LH707 :

Steve, that one has the early intake. Unless you want to change it do do KCE, I'd suggest doing KCA/B/C.



That's very sharp. The current kit only allows you to make these and PH-KCD. The larger #2 intake was applied from Audrey Hepburn (PH-KCE). Please be aware that the belly is not white, but a very light grey, as are the engines. The tail and winglets are white.

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Post #66017, posted on 02-10-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Waw, I'm still waiting for the Megastore to stock the KLM boxing of this kit and you just built what would have taken me six months at least. I will build mine in Martinair Cargo livery, I just want the KLM sheet in my spares box.

Quote
FokkerFan :

I presume you meant A330, as A300 have never been in the KLM fleet.



Or A310 ;)

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Post #66018, posted on 02-10-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Quote
FokkerFan :
Quote
Cabforward :



Quote
LH707 :

Steve, that one has the early intake. Unless you want to change it do do KCE, I'd suggest doing KCA/B/C.



That's very sharp. The current kit only allows you to make these and PH-KCD. The larger #2 intake was applied from Audrey Hepburn (PH-KCE). Please be aware that the belly is not white, but a very light grey, as are the engines. The tail and winglets are white.



I can change reg no problem but that KLM grey is a real problem. I have searched and anything other than white is too dark. Looking at the photos, and I have looked at many, it's impossible to distinguish between the white and the grey, as a matter of fact I could only see it in two photos.

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Post #66022, posted on 02-10-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Hi Stevej - that doubler reinforcement along the window line looks great. Well done.

Frank van der Voet
Calgary, AB, Canada

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Post #66031, posted on 02-11-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Hi Steve
KLM grey has been discussed in another post here New KLM scheme decal.
The lower fuselage off-white/light grey of the KLM scheme on MD11s is a very subtle difference in colour.
This close-up picture below of a KLM A330 might help - it shows the KLM logo above the window line is pure white whereas, in contrast, the lower fuselage is clearly off-white/light grey.
Hope this helps
Tim



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Post #66078, posted on 02-13-2017 GMT-5 hours    


The window doubler worked out real well. 3D windows from AA. Decals from Draw.

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Post #66090, posted on 02-14-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Looks really nice so far. For the right belly color you can make a self made mix and add a few drops of light grey, just for peace of conscience.

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Post #66091, posted on 02-14-2017 GMT-5 hours    
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Stevej :
Window doubler added, taped off and applied several layers of primer.



That looks perfect!

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Post #66097, posted on 02-15-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Ok, my MD-11s just showed up, what a shock !

Flimsy packaging from Hobbyterra but...

Beautiful kits they are, I am especially amazed at the petite recessed detailing that manages to remain perfectly consistent all over. Very slight flashes here and there but that will not scare me. Outline and compound curves look very convincing. Only thing that struck me is the windshield recessed outline, the shape is not enough pinched at junction between the 2 forward windows and 2 openable windows. No big deal as I can easily correct it by sanding and rescribing it. Window belts and fuselage beauty strips missing but I will try add them with bare metal foil for consistent thickness all over. Sprue/runners/gates remind me of Big Plane Kits, perhaps are the molds tooled by the same company ?

It just became my favourite kit, even more than Zvezda's "shake and bake-no sanding-no putty-almost Tamiya grade" 777-300ER superlative kit. I am looking forward to any other MD-11 release, not forgetting 2 6 Decals's combo.

Well done Russian geniuses !

BMW 850 Ci E31 / Mercedes-Benz 560 SEC W126

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Post #66098, posted on 02-15-2017 GMT-5 hours    
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Stevej :
The window doubler worked out real well. 3D windows from AA. Decals from Draw.



Looking really good, Steve. At this point I wouldn't worry about the white/gray paint issue. The rest of the model looks too good to undo all the work you've done, and honestly the level of work you're displaying right now means the eye (or mine, at least) doesn't even notice. Looking forward to seeing the completed model, and I hope your example encourages some folks to give the kit a try.

Jodie Peeler

In 1924 Wien was Alaska's first airline. In 1980 it still is.

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Post #66116, posted on 02-18-2017 GMT-5 hours    
Question: Some photos show the top surface of the inboard flap bare aluminum and other photos do not. KCH definatly shows it, was this common on all MD-11's or just the later models?

I give up, posted all these photos and now this one just won't post.[thumb=datas/thumbs/1528-dsc_3629 (2)_edited-


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Post #66118, posted on 02-18-2017 GMT-5 hours    
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Stevej :
...I give up, posted all these photos and now this one just won't post.



I think the problem is the space and parentheses in the file name.

Regards,
ahmed |
--o--o-( )-o--o--