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      Jennings


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      Post #66883, posted on 04-10-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      United seems to be going out of their way to step on their own d**ks these days. Between this, the recent bad PR over the leggings issue, and the way I was treated the last time I flew them, they've certainly seen the last of my business. I'll walk first.

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2017/04/10/a-man-wouldnt-leave-an-overbooked-united-flight-so-he-was-dragged-off-battered-and-limp/?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.8003418bbe5b

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      Post #66884, posted on 04-10-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Amazing, I read it on anet and was shocked.

      I mean... how can this happen ? How can an airline behave that way ?

      Some users on anet started hiding behind the "an airline can kick you out of the flight without a single excuse, it is their right" or "probably the Dr was from the beginning rude" excuse, but there is simply no excuse hammering someone like that. If he was causing a threat, ok, understandable, but in this case ?! And in front of passengers and kids ?

      What sort of publicity is the airline expecting ?

      Exactly a case where I applaud US legal system : I hope he sues the company for that.

      BMW 850 Ci E31 / Mercedes-Benz 560 SEC W126

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      Jennings


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      Post #66885, posted on 04-10-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      It surpasses my comprehension that someone who works for an airline could even conceive of calling the police to physically remove a passenger in a case like this. Did they not think this would blow up in their faces, when 50 people are making videos of it and posting it on Twitter and Facebook within seconds? How utterly stupid can you possibly be?

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      TWA Brat


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      Post #66886, posted on 04-10-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      So, at $800 a pop, UA couldn't purchase first class tickets on another airline for the UA non-revs who absolutely, positively had to get to Louisville?
      Also wondering how many first class passengers were "randomly selected' by UA's computer for de-boarding?
      C'mon, UA, this is reminiscent of shenanigans pulled on me by my least favorite airline, AA.

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      Post #66887, posted on 04-10-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      SMH...

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      Post #66891, posted on 04-11-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      https://www.facebook.com/TheConservativePunk/videos/633961390135171/

      Al

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      47 driver


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      Post #66893, posted on 04-11-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      And yet none of the sheeple around him did anything to help defend him .
      Gee makes one wonder what flying will be like 20 years down the road.

      If it has wings I can crash it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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      Post #66894, posted on 04-11-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Quote
      47 driver :
      And yet none of the sheeple around him did anything to help defend him .
      ....



      What? And risk getting thrown off as well or arrested for "obstructing" some "law enforcement" numbskull?

      I'm not American and I've never been to America but there's no way I'd get involved in a confrontational situation on an aircraft unless there were clear rights and wrongs such as somebody attacking a member of cabin crew or (heaven forbid) trying to get to the cockpit.

      If that classes me as one of the "sheeple" (probably the most stupid non-word in the English language) I'll live with it.

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      Post #66895, posted on 04-11-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      I don't think I would've risked an arrest either. But the way United handled it, was a disaster. This is a very touchy subject for a lot of people, let's please keep it civilized so I don't have to close the thread. It happened and it could've definitely been handled better.

      Let's not get too serious, here are a few new possible United mottos:

      Sit back, relax and enjoy your fight.
      You can run but you can't fly.
      The Captain has turned on the no passenger sign.
      We have red-eye and black-eye flights available!
      You are now free to get dragged around the cabin.

      Regards,
      ahmed |
      --o--o-( )-o--o--

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      the PRIDEbird


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      Post #66896, posted on 04-11-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      I really really wonder....
      I ever thought Americans (or at least SOME Americans - not all! To be fair.)
      would do everything for a chance to earn money. *)
      Maybe United should increase their VDB compensation offer.
      The way United did is an absolute NO-GO!
      I really really wonder - United couldn't get a
      more terrible publicity. Worldwide!
      Shame United, shame!

      I hope this will not become a standard in Star Alliance!
      Ridiculous - Lufthansa will become a 5-Star airline
      with all its might. We hear it every day.
      Sometimes a Star Alliance quality-check by a commission is
      announced and we are briefed weeks in advance to avoid any possible mistakes.
      And then that! Did United fulfill the standards? Absolutely NO!

      *)
      When Lufthansa introduced VDB some years ago to increase earnings
      this procedure was already well known and very common in the States since years.
      Back then I heard from collegues some passengers in the U.S. booked
      oversold flights intentionally only for one reason - just to get the cash.
      Never had the real intention to take the flight.
      Or they waited until the bonus was increased. As in an auction.
      This was almost unknown in Europe at that time.
      I don't know this story is true or not - maybe only rumours...

      Anyway, a few days ago I thought about how many of the great american airlines are gone
      (Braniff, Eastern, Pan Am, TWA, Northwest, US Air(ways), Continental) and how many remained.
      Only 3! Delta, American and United. Not a big choice anymore.
      Which will be the next?

      Sven

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      Post #66897, posted on 04-11-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      United screwed the pooch pretty hard on this one. Couple things they could have done better:

      1. Offer more than just $1k in compensation
      2. Offer cash and not a voucher
      3. IDB people before boarding (might have to plan the deadhead thing better)
      4. Not have a completely tone-deaf response when the airport goons overdo it and beat the guy up

      Between 1 and 2, they would eventually have found someone willing to take their offer, and 3/4 would not be an issue.

      One thing that I think needs to change in the US from a consumer protection standpoint is a much higher cap on IDB compensation, $1350 is laughably low. If $10k were the limit, airlines wouldn't be this quick to chuck people, and they'd have to play the auction game until people were willing to accept an amount. I've booked last-minute work trips for important meetings for near that amount, and the cost of getting bumped would be way higher than that. It's quite ok for airlines to overbook, provided that when they overdo it, the consumers have some recourse to hold their feet to the fire.

      Regarding Sven's point about people gaming the system and buying to get compensated, the market can fix this. If nobody will get off a plane for less than $2k, don't sell an oversell ticket for any less than that. If the yield management team does their jobs, this won't happen.

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      Post #66898, posted on 04-11-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Quote
      LH707 :
      ...
      Regarding Sven's point about people gaming the system and buying to get compensated, the market can fix this. If nobody will get off a plane for less than $2k, don't sell an oversell ticket for any less than that. If the yield management team does their jobs, this won't happen.



      I agree and really would appreciate it!
      Maybe the E.U. which regulates all and everything
      will solve that problem as well.
      The E.U. would be something useful at least.

      To tell a passenger "Your flight is oversold today
      and you will get your seat assignment at the departure gate"
      (and think "Probably...probably not.") is not funny!
      Some passengers don't fly often and they aren't experienced.
      You hear their responses "But we've booked this flight already
      65 million years ago..." They're really worried - what to say?

      Sometimes me and my collegues really don't understand
      what sales control do.
      Japanese passengers e.g. are really reliable and well-organized.
      Love them!
      You can be 100% sure if they book a flight - they all will show up! On time!
      Nevertheless the HND, KIX and NGO flights are often oversold.

      Sven

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      Post #66899, posted on 04-11-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      If there's an auction, then the gate agent can just tell everyone that "nobody will get IDBed" and everyone's happy.

      Regarding your example of the Japanese passengers, they're famous for having their shit together and getting 500 pax on a 747 in 15 minutes, I wished everybody were that organized. Maybe yield management should pick up on that and set an assumed no-show rate of 0% for Japanese pax and the normal rates for Europeans/Americans etc. to avoid IDBs.

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      Post #66904, posted on 04-12-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      You call it IDB - we call it VDB - Voluntary Denied Boarding.
      It's the same (but different )
      But just a stupid question: What stands IDB for?

      Sven

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      Post #66906, posted on 04-12-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      I wonder if this will tip congress into an EU261-like law in the U.S. (My guess is probably not)

      Chris

      "Sorry Goose... But it's time to buzz the Tower."

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      Post #66909, posted on 04-12-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      VDB=voluntary
      IDB=involuntary

      I have zero issue with VDB auctions, I've been temped to take deals in the past, but IDB I have an issue with, which is why I think the cap needs to be high to encourage airlines to plan better.

      Chris, I really hope we get a passenger bill of rights here, but I'm not super hopeful.

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      Post #66913, posted on 04-12-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Yeah I don't see it happening.... There are too many opponents. The professor I studied under in my post-doctoral is one of the worlds foremost experts on the economic regulations of the airline industry and even he says that such regulations/laws are terrible. We will see....

      Chris

      "Sorry Goose... But it's time to buzz the Tower."

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      Post #66914, posted on 04-12-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      An airline customer bill of rights? We're barreling headlong the opposite direction in America right now. If some people had their way, we wouldn't have a right to clean air or water.

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      Post #66915, posted on 04-13-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      I'm beginning to wonder if there's a first part to this video that we haven't seen .

      If it has wings I can crash it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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      Post #66917, posted on 04-13-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Ryanair have introduced a new charge for overbooked flights...

      Ryanair overbooking policy

      Have a look at my aviation photos here!

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      Post #66918, posted on 04-13-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Quote
      47 driver :
      I'm beginning to wonder if there's a first part to this video that we haven't seen .



      Such as what? Do you mean the bit where the passenger is allowed to board the flight in the normal manner and take the seat he has paid for?

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      Post #66919, posted on 04-13-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      You win ! I suck at conversation anyway.

      If it has wings I can crash it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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      Post #66920, posted on 04-13-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Chris, what did you professor say was horrible, the lack of good regulation, or regulation? I was having this conversation yesterday at dinner, and think the appropriate reg should be as follows: For an IDB, the limit is $10k US or 5x ticket price, whichever is higher (to account for someone paying $10k on an F ticket). That way, the airlines play the auction game like they ought to.

      Jennings, you got it totally backwards: you can have clean air and water, you just need to buy it

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      Post #66921, posted on 04-13-2017 GMT-5 hours    
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      LH707 :

      Jennings, you got it totally backwards: you can have clean air and water, you just need to buy it



      I guess you missed the part about our current president and the EPA being dismantled and the thought that climate change is not happening. Just a matter of time before we are back to our polluted ways.

      Keep em separated!
      Steve

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      Post #66922, posted on 04-13-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Quote
      LH707 :
      Chris, what did you professor say was horrible, the lack of good regulation, or regulation? I was having this conversation yesterday at dinner, and think the appropriate reg should be as follows: For an IDB, the limit is $10k US or 5x ticket price, whichever is higher (to account for someone paying $10k on an F ticket). That way, the airlines play the auction game like they ought to.




      He believes it should be left to the market. I.E. if Airline A is constantly late then customers will choose Airline B. He thinks that all regulations such as EU261 do is drive up ticket prices etc and he has some numbers to back it up. And if there is anything the American flying public cannot stand its high ticket prices. That's why the number one factor in ticket sales remains ticket price.

      I used to have links to a few of his articles but I can't find them at the moment. We discussed it at length in one of the classes I had with him (Public International Aviation Law).

      Was a really interesting class.

      Chris

      "Sorry Goose... But it's time to buzz the Tower."

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      Post #66924, posted on 04-13-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Quote
      XRadar :
      Quote
      LH707 :

      Jennings, you got it totally backwards: you can have clean air and water, you just need to buy it



      I guess you missed the part about our current president and the EPA being dismantled and the thought that climate change is not happening. Just a matter of time before we are back to our polluted ways.


      I said that thoroughly tongue-in-cheek, hence the " " at the end. I think what's going on right now is a big problem.
      Quote
      BruinPrideBand :
      He believes it should be left to the market. I.E. if Airline A is constantly late then customers will choose Airline B. He thinks that all regulations such as EU261 do is drive up ticket prices etc and he has some numbers to back it up. And if there is anything the American flying public cannot stand its high ticket prices. That's why the number one factor in ticket sales remains ticket price.

      I used to have links to a few of his articles but I can't find them at the moment. We discussed it at length in one of the classes I had with him (Public International Aviation Law).

      Was a really interesting class.

      Chris



      I'd be curious to read some of those articles if you have a reference.

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      Post #66935, posted on 04-14-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      THIS is how you do it!!

      http://thehill.com/policy/transportation/aviation/328897-delta-oks-up-to-10k-in-overbooked-flight-payouts-report?amp=1

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      Post #66936, posted on 04-14-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      I'll have to keep that in mind next time I'm on a heavily-booked DL flight ;)

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      the PRIDEbird


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      Post #66937, posted on 04-14-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Quote
      LH707 :
      VDB=voluntary
      IDB=involuntary
      ...



      Aaaah! Thanks.
      You call it IDB
      we say DBC for involuntary
      (Denied Boarding Compensation).
      It's the same but different.

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      Post #67318, posted on 05-21-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Perhaps the airlines would consider putting cameras in the cabin ,that way it just might put the kabosh on those folks
      who just can not help themselves.

      If it has wings I can crash it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!