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      Team 4R


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      Post #66106, posted on 02-17-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Friends,

      I've scoured the internet for the past few hours and I can't seem to find much reliable information on doing an A318 conversion with the Revell kit. In particular I'm starting with an A320, and I'm trying to determine how much fuselage to remove fore and aft of the wing roots.

      I know about the taller tail and the shorter wing roots. I read about the right wing root being shorter than the left. I've heard talk about differences in the CFM engines and saw something about some strakes in front of the nose gear doors.... And the A321 wings have to be fixed, of course.

      Any help as to length would be hugely appreciated.

      Thanks!

      Andrew

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      Jennings


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      Post #66107, posted on 02-17-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      I have one, but I'm traveling this week, so I can't post it until I get home.

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      Post #66109, posted on 02-17-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Thank you Jennings. Your information is always reliable so I'm happy to wait.

      In the meantime I have found the following statement over on britmodeller:

      "Based on a frame spacing of 53.3cm:
      The A318 is 11.5 frames shorter than the A320 (4.5 fwd, 7 aft)
      The A319 is 7 frames shorter than the A320 (3 fwd, 4 aft)
      The A321 is 13 frames longer than the A320 (8 fwd, 5 aft)"


      Extrapolating from this information it would seem I need to remove 1.67 cm in front of the wings and 2.59 cm aft. Translating those numbers to 'murican works out to about .66" fore and 1.02" aft.

      I'll keep that in mind but I really prefer having an accurate line drawing on which to place a fuselage half... What with all those panel lines and such. The search continues!

      Andrew

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      Post #66110, posted on 02-17-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      You also need to extend the vertical fin.

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      Babay


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      Post #66111, posted on 02-18-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Here is my small collection of images from the web, I hope it will help. Have enjoyable sawing.





      In addition here are a couple of sketches from Peter (skippiebg), I hope he will not mind if I'll post them.



      Aeroflot and Veb Plasticart
      The classics from childhood

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      Post #66112, posted on 02-18-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Hi Andrew
      From Airbus data:
      Fuselage length: A320 = 37.57m, A318 = 31.45m, difference in length = 6.12m which is 42.5mm at 1/144 scale.
      > Of this 6.12m difference, 2.39m is forward of the wing which is 16.6mm at 1/144 scale.
      > The aft difference is 3.73m which is 25.9mm at 1/144 scale.
      Tail height: A320 = 5.87m, A318 = 6.62m, difference in height is 0.75m which is 5.2mm at 1/144 scale.
      Baggage hold doors: A318 doors are narrower at 1.28m wide which is 8.9mm at 1/144 scale.
      Hope this is clear and helps your conversion.
      Picture below of my A318, although I didn't attempt to shorten the wing-body fairing (far beyond my skills!).
      Best of luck
      Tim


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      Post #66114, posted on 02-18-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Now we're cooking with fire!

      Tim, your numbers are within close tolerances to my own calculations, so thank you for that confirmation! And it looks like I'll need to add .2" of height to the vertical stabilizer.

      Babay, your resources are perfect! Just what I needed... I scaled and printed the line drawing there, and went to town with my scalpel and cutter. I didn't bother to save the inserts in this case: I figure the rest of the family is already commercially available.

      Thanks again guys!



      Andrew

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      Post #66119, posted on 02-18-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      This thread on Britmodeller might be of interest - http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234952320-airbus-a318-conversion-from-a319-finished/

      The conversion is from the A319 rather than the A320 but "Viking" is among the best modellers in the business and his threads are always worth reading.

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      Post #66121, posted on 02-18-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Or perhaps* better yet... why not go with the Eastern Express A318 kit?

      *if it's one of EE's better efforts...seems the quality of their kits runs the spectrum from good/not bad to very bad.

      Todd
      IWA

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      Post #66125, posted on 02-18-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Quote
      Tango-Bravo :
      Or perhaps* better yet... why not go with the Eastern Express A318 kit?

      *if it's one of EE's better efforts...seems the quality of their kits runs the spectrum from good/not bad to very bad.

      Todd
      IWA



      Don't even THINK about the Eastern Express A318. I've been modelling for over 50 years and building airliners exclusively for 20 of those years. I can put my hand on my heart and say the EE A318 is probably the worst kit I've ever encountered. It is a bad rip-off of Revell parts and moulded to a truly appalling standard. I don't know the position in the USA but in the UK this piece of pirated excrement sells for over 20. You can buy a Revell A319 for about 11, do your own conversion and end up with a better model. The EE A318 is one of the few kits I've abandoned as unbuildable (as opposed to those I've messed up through my own incompetence) and compared to trying to make a decent model from it converting the Revell kit is simple and straightforward.

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      Post #66132, posted on 02-19-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Is it possible the first pic above (from Flight International)
      shows the differences between A318 and A319 - not A320?
      Says "rear fuselage shortened by 1,59m" and
      "fwd fuselage shortened by 0,8m"
      Seems to less for A320 / A318
      and Tim's response says 3,73m aft and 2,39m fwd
      compared to A320.
      Or do I have a miscalculation 😕❓❓❓❓

      Another question: The two BWF are real different???
      I never noticed on a real A318 (but the A318 isn't
      common at FRA or better: it's a real real rarity - almost never)
      The A318 is asymmetric...???


      Sven

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      Post #66133, posted on 02-19-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Sven, yes, the right WBF is shorter to make enough space for the forward cargo hatch.

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      Post #66134, posted on 02-19-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Sven: Yes, that Flight International picture shows the differences between an A318 and A319. It is still an excellent reference as to the changes that need to be made with the A318 model, though. And, yes, the wing roots on the A318 are slightly shorter and are also asymmetrical. The right side right is shorter in the front than the left side root to clear the forward cargo door.

      Todd: I looked into the EE kit, but read the negative reviews about it and decided to avoid it altogether. Besides, I've had a few Revell kits sitting on my shelves for years and figured I had better do something with them!

      Dave: I did see that thread earlier, and I have found a few others on that site that I am using as references. There have been some interesting changes in the thought process surrounding this conversion since the last time I built an airliner.

      The most valuable difference I have come across was the position of the cut on the rear of the fuselage... Cutting inside the rear of the wing roots allows them to be shortened very easily and also allows one to avoid the "step" in the lower rear fuselage. As an example, when I closed the fuselage on my A318 I ended up with:



      And my sincerest apologies for the photo quality... My phone camera has seen better days.

      Thanks again, guys!

      Andrew

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      Post #66144, posted on 02-20-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Nice job Andrew. I didn't know where to cut the rear off, so I did it between the 4th and 5th window from the back. As you mentioned this resulted in the a "step". With some milliput and sandpaper I managed to get it nice and even as well. Don't forget to shrink the cargo doors, as mentioned in the article of flight international (or use decals for that matter).

      Here is how that looked like





      What livery will it get by the way?

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      Post #66148, posted on 02-20-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Thanks for your responses guys!

      Thought about to build an A318 too.
      REVELL A319 could be a good source as well
      or ZVEZDA A320. Let's see...
      Not quite sure because the A318 wasn't and isn't
      a big success.
      In Europe only AIR FRANCE, TAROM
      - both flew it to FRA for a short while - and British Airways
      have A318 in their fleets.
      The selection of liveries isn't so lush...
      Maybe British Airways????

      Found a resin tail fin replacement for A318 conversion
      anywhere in the past.
      Can't remember was it BraZ (Ivo) or Contrails?
      But isn't on the webpage anymore...

      Sven

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      Post #66152, posted on 02-20-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Glad to see my sketch of some help to someone! Thank you, Babay, for posting it! Threw it together some years ago while pondering a way around the conversion (one I never finished to my shame...)

      Just to clarify: the red-outlined engine nacelle is the PW6000, and the superimposed black outline is that of the V2500. The two look similar, but purists would baulk...

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      Post #66153, posted on 02-21-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Quote
      the PRIDEbird :
      Thanks for your responses guys!

      Thought about to build an A318 too.
      REVELL A319 could be a good source as well
      or ZVEZDA A320. Let's see...
      Not quite sure because the A318 wasn't and isn't
      a big success.
      In Europe only AIR FRANCE, TAROM
      - both flew it to FRA for a short while - and British Airways
      have A318 in their fleets.
      The selection of liveries isn't so lush...
      Maybe British Airways????

      Found a resin tail fin replacement for A318 conversion
      anywhere in the past.
      Can't remember was it BraZ (Ivo) or Contrails?
      But isn't on the webpage anymore...

      Sven



      The resin fin was made by BraZ but is not currently listed. If you read the Britmodeller thread I linked earlier it shows how to modify the kit fin. It isn't difficult.

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      Post #66157, posted on 02-21-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Thanks Dave.
      Probably the fin is the simplest challenge of the entire project

      Sven

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      Post #66164, posted on 02-22-2017 GMT-5 hours    
      Just to clarify: the red-outlined engine nacelle is the PW6000, and the superimposed black outline is that of the V2500. The two look similar, but purists would baulk...

      So, I'm guessing that the one possible reason to buy the EE 318, to get the version with `P+W' engines if needed for your chosen livery*, is probably negated... I am guessing that EE has cloned the V2500s as `P+Ws'?

      *LAN Chile has always appealed to me